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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Grrrr.....
    It was posted before this site was even a dream sticky Click here to enlarge

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    I notice all Eugene's love power
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    It was posted before this site was even a dream sticky Click here to enlarge
    I understand, all is forgiven.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Actually you are mixing Racing Dynamics and Turbo Dynamics. Racing Dynamics offered the turbos looking like ASR and people were thinking they originated from the same person whoever supplied the turbos for these companies. I don't know anyone actually purchasing RD turbos, so Icannot say much about them. TD came later then RB and looked just like RB... The "stg 2" naming you used originates from TD since they had stg1 with clipped wheel first and after that stg 2.
    good info, replied so its seen on page 2. i didnt care to look through the e90post archive but am glad you remember the chronology Click here to enlarge and you're right, i do remember RD, they never got people to buy on that huh? it was the outrageous pricing right? true on the stg2 wording, i only used that to organize my thoughts and make my post more clear to any level of reader... thanks for the corrections and hope to meet up sooner or later man Click here to enlarge
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  5. #30
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    Ok, I know im not the most technically minded individual, but is there any reason why a displacement increase can't be done on these engines as well? I know most N55 owners aren't thinking about anything this in-depth, with warranty still in affect, but is it a possibility? If it isnt, please tell me why, for knowledge sake
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Ok, I know im not the most technically minded individual, but is there any reason why a displacement increase can't be done on these engines as well? I know most N55 owners aren't thinking about anything this in-depth, with warranty still in affect, but is it a possibility? If it isnt, please tell me why, for knowledge sake
    I don't think there is much room to gain with the bore. I'd have to take a look at the stroke but that is basically where you would be looking.

  7. #32
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    SO I guess items like CAMs, Pistons, Rods and all that stuff that you normally see get done on an American Muscle Car is not a reality for the N54/N55 crowd? Is it because this engine is more or less at the maximum aspect on the N/A side, hence the Turbo usage, and only a turbo upgrade would make any gains (sense)..
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    you can put the some aggressive cams but they never really work in FI cars, unless you get something designed for FI cars.
    But i really i don't know if any CAM is available for N54/N55.

    you can also get pistons and rods but there is no point in buying those because the stock pistons in these engines are came from Mahle I believe.

  9. #34
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    The point of changing internals would be for lower static compression ratio which leads to the ability to run more boost with a larger compressor, not to mention weight savings or increased strength. BIG gains can be seen with cams/headwork on turbo cars, it really just depends on how restrictive the head is from the factory and whether you are designing for a spread-out torque curve or a higher, "peaky" one.

    ALL the bottlenecks need to be taken into account though, and that also includes the Throttle Body, Charge and Suction piping, Intake Manifold, etc. I think by far the biggest bottleneck on the N54 and N55 is the turbo size/flow rate and of course the fueling issues.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    The point of changing internals would be for lower static compression ratio which leads to the ability to run more boost with a larger compressor, not to mention weight savings or increased strength.
    did ever someone push stock internals into it's limit?

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    did ever someone push stock internals into it's limit?
    I know a few N54 that have let go, but I think they were all fueling related.

    I haven't heard of someone actually bending a rod or damaging a piston from too much power while running in the "safe zones" for A/F ratio, Ign. Timing, Intake/Exhaust/Oil/Coolant Temps, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    BIG gains can be seen with cams/headwork on turbo cars, it really just depends on how restrictive the head is from the factory and whether you are designing for a spread-out torque curve or a higher, "peaky" one.
    Does anyone know how restrictive the N54/N55 engines are? I would assume the engine is the same (regardless if you are looking at the N54 or N55), the only difference is the Turbo right? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have a spread out torque curve for DD ability, unless of course you are looking to track the car?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    the bottlenecks need to be taken into account though, and that also includes the Throttle Body, Charge and Suction piping, Intake Manifold, etc. I think by far the biggest bottleneck on the N54 and N55 is the turbo size/flow rate and of course the fueling issues.
    With that said, lets say someone hypothetically got all the work done on the engine, and increased the size of the turbo, you'd still need a tune (whether flash or piggy) to effectively use the increase right? THe stock tune wouldn't be able to effectively utilize the rebuilt engine, and/or upgraded turbo?
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  13. #38
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    don't worry about tune, currently RB people are happy with their piggybacks especially JB dudes.

    the main problem is fueling and i don't understand why nobody can swap some good stuff into N54.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone know how restrictive the N54/N55 engines are? I would assume the engine is the same (regardless if you are looking at the N54 or N55), the only difference is the Turbo right? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have a spread out torque curve for DD ability, unless of course you are looking to track the car?
    I believe PEI330Ci (Can't find the damn post with the numbers and chart he did) did some testing on the N54 head and found the Volumetric Efficiency to peak at 5500RPM @ 95%. It also flowed significantly less CFM on the Exhaust and Intake side vs a S54 head. The N55 MAJOR difference is that it uses "Valvetronic", which is supposed to be a infinitely variable valve-lift system designed to replace the throttle blade, decreasing pumping losses. Basically the intake valves open more when you give it gas versus the N54 which has a traditional electronic butterfly valve.

    The torque curve is the very reason why people are so opinionated about motors. Some love peaky torque, some hate it, some want it all low, some want it all high, some want it everywhere, it's really just an opinion which one is better. The real performance measure is numbers after the motor/vehicle is complete.



    With that said, lets say someone hypothetically got all the work done on the engine, and increased the size of the turbo, you'd still need a tune (whether flash or piggy) to effectively use the increase right? THe stock tune wouldn't be able to effectively utilize the rebuilt engine, and/or upgraded turbo?
    Yes, the stock tune will not effectively use all of the potential power of a built N54 with a turbo such as a GTX3582r. You would also need fueling sorted out, as the stock injectors/LPFP/HPFP combo starts to cap out around 450whp worth of airflow, hence the majority of N54 record setters using methanol injection as an alternative fuel source.

    George Smooth recently had success with a simple "Wet" shot of Nitrous Oxide. He injected extra gasoline (Octane?) along with the shot with single nozzle just before the throttle body. It worked well for his overall A/F ratio but we do not know if each individual cylinder is being fed equally, which can lead to damage. The technically best solution would be a complete upgrade of the Direct Injection system, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw secondary fuel rail with 6 traditional injectors as a solution first. Coupled with a tune that could run the secondary injection system would mean basically you could have as much fuel as you would ever want, and your limits would be the strength of the motor and how much air it can move.
    Last edited by fundahl; 07-25-2011 at 01:03 PM.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    don't worry about tune, currently RB people are happy with their piggybacks especially JB dudes.
    Well I'm especially screwed, No Procede or JB4 N55 capability on the X5... Due to the 8 speed AT and some different ECU programming, my only route is either A. Stick to JB3 Stg 1, or B. Get a Flash.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Yes, the stock tune will not effectively use all of the potential power of a built N54 with a turbo such as a GTX3582r. You would also need fueling sorted out, as the stock injectors/LPFP/HPFP combo starts to cap out around 450whp worth of airflow, hence the majority of N54 record setters using methanol injection.
    So basically without upgraded injectors, and a HPFP/LPFP that is capable of delivering the needed fuel, all those other upgrades would be pointless..?

    Would it still be pointless if getting 400hp out of the N55 engine was the goal? (I know, I should have gotten a N63, but trading in for one is not an option.)
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  16. #41
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    CHRA Upgrade On a N55 Would be nice, Terry said that the n55 is already maxed out at 16psi and 370 on the dyno the turbo can't take it.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Well I'm especially screwed, No Procede or JB4 N55 capability on the X5... Due to the 8 speed AT and some different ECU programming, my only route is either A. Stick to JB3 Stg 1, or B. Get a Flash.



    So basically without upgraded injectors, and a HPFP/LPFP that is capable of delivering the needed fuel, all those other upgrades would be pointless..?

    Would it still be pointless if getting 400hp out of the N55 engine was the goal? (I know, I should have gotten a N63, but trading in for one is not an option.)
    wait a little, still most N55 cars are under warranty so nothing good is available for now.

    Get DP and Intake, you will be closer to your goal.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge

    So basically without upgraded injectors, and a HPFP/LPFP that is capable of delivering the needed fuel, all those other upgrades would be pointless..?

    Would it still be pointless if getting 400hp out of the N55 engine was the goal? (I know, I should have gotten a N63, but trading in for one is not an option.)
    I'm saying, you can have a car that COULD make 1,000WHP because it has potential to move that much air, but if the required A/F ratio to run WOT for any amount of time is 12.8:1 for the given fuel and you have a fuel system that can only supply enough fuel to hit 18.5:1, you will run lean at WOT and risk severe damage the motor.

    The realistic scenario is that the stock fuel system for the N54 and N55 is well matched for the stock turbos. The turbos will reach a certain choking RPM (which can be passed but efficiency goes WAY down), kind of like an injector can only flow up till it's max cycle duty.

    I wouldn't say any power mod is pointless if it actually makes power. If you want 400HP from the N55 then go for it! Just know that even with all the bolt-ons for the N55, the main bottleneck is going to be that turbo.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    wait a little, still most N55 cars are under warranty so nothing good is available for now.

    Get DP and Intake, you will be closer to your goal.
    As the saying goes, gotta pay to play right... I know warranty is a big factor in most people making extensive upgrades. To Me Warranty is their for one thing only, backup in case the OEM parts fail, but if I upgrade my engine, I'm not expecting BMW to pick up the bill... Unless they know a part (OEM) is going to fail (like the HPFP will always fail, eventually). The problem I face as a X5 owner trying to do all the same upgrades the 135/335 crowd is doing is that the Aftermarket support doesn't exist yet. We are on the back burners, we could be waiting a few months, to a few years before the upgrades the 335's get are available to us. I don't like to wait (nor would i want to wait that long) Hence my inquiries into what 'bottlenecks' I may face in my pursuit. Of course it's a waiting game to get items custom made for my application, and I'm willing to wait for that.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Ok, I know im not the most technically minded individual, but is there any reason why a displacement increase can't be done on these engines as well? I know most N55 owners aren't thinking about anything this in-depth, with warranty still in affect, but is it a possibility? If it isnt, please tell me why, for knowledge sake
    Stroking and boring is more costly and labor intensive most of the time.

    Plus the N54 has a $#@!ty stroke/rod length ratio. So you would need custom designed pistons, rods, crank and we all know how much aftermarket BMW engine parts cost, might as well forge it out of solid diamond.

    Anyway, if you want more power, why not just add more boost? Dont need displacement, 3 liters is plenty when youre pushing 40 psi.

    I think aftermarket should focus more on fueling, turbos, headwork, valvework, stroker kits, cams in that exact order.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    SO I guess items like CAMs, Pistons, Rods and all that stuff that you normally see get done on an American Muscle Car is not a reality for the N54/N55 crowd? Is it because this engine is more or less at the maximum aspect on the N/A side, hence the Turbo usage, and only a turbo upgrade would make any gains (sense)..
    Cams are definitely possible.

    Pistons and rods are definitely possible.

    It is tuning hurdles and the attitude of the customers toward tuning. The only reason the N54 market has a large tuning base is due to easy power upgrades. Beyond that, there isn't much. Says something about the customers as well as the platform.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone know how restrictive the N54/N55 engines are? I would assume the engine is the same (regardless if you are looking at the N54 or N55), the only difference is the Turbo right? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have a spread out torque curve for DD ability, unless of course you are looking to track the car?
    They are going to be about the same but Valvetronic is really the main variable.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    I believe PEI330Ci (Can't find the damn post with the numbers and chart he did) did some testing on the N54 head and found the Volumetric Efficiency to peak at 5500RPM @ 95%. It also flowed significantly less CFM on the Exhaust and Intake side vs a S54 head.
    Exactly correct.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Well I'm especially screwed, No Procede or JB4 N55 capability on the X5... Due to the 8 speed AT and some different ECU programming, my only route is either A. Stick to JB3 Stg 1, or B. Get a Flash.
    That is weird, the N55 JB won't work on the X5?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That is weird, the N55 JB won't work on the X5?
    The Stage 1 does work, and I do use it, but Terry Stated that Stage 2 will be unavailable for the X5/X6/535 with the N55... Due to programming differences in these platforms compared to the 135/335's... Shiv told me the same thing, hence the procede not working on those platforms as well... So this is why I state that either I stick with the Stage 1 tune, or pursue a Flash....

    Now I' know they say, "Don't Stack Tunes" but I wonder if it's possible to get a flash from say PAW or other flasher, and utilize the stage 1 JB3 on top of that with no ill affect 'short term'. 'Long term' I know there are risks, ie burning the turbo out faster, etc... I wouldn't advocate running at 5+ psi with a flash already present, maybe 2+ or 3+..

    I guess I'm stretching things in my quest for more power... Without a fuel upgrade or turbo, i'm grasping at straws, more or less...
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