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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Damn man, guess I'm missing the backstory here but Jason's posting has been respectful here.
    There is no backstory....I do ask that the post be removed. I do not know this guy and he does not know me.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jason Click here to enlarge
    There is no backstory....I do ask that the post be removed. I do not know this guy and he does not know me.
    No worries, I think you cleared it up. I think when LM comes back he will apologize for the misunderstanding. It's over with, let's get back on topic.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    So all these gains over the last say 3-4 years are fake? Pass the Koolaid.
    There are real gains to be had. This is your dyno if I'm not mistaken:

    Click here to enlarge



    rpm % gain
    2500 11.7%
    3000 7.2%
    3500 4.2%
    4000 4.0%
    4500 3.7%
    5000 5.0%
    5500 6.6%
    6000 4.6%
    6500 5.3%
    7000 3.6%
    7500 5.9%
    8000 7.4%

  4. #29
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    yes, sticky, please remove it.. i only know one "Jason" involved in this type of thing.s if your not, him, i apologize, sticky, please delete if its not THE "Jason"

  5. #30
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    Another OE tune:

    Click here to enlarge


    rpm % gain
    2500 -19.0%
    3000 25.0%
    3500 9.4%
    4000 5.1%
    4500 4.1%
    5000 3.7%
    5500 7.6%
    6000 4.8%
    6500 5.8%
    7000 4.4%
    7500 4.8%
    8000 5.2%
    Last edited by spdu4ea; 03-25-2011 at 11:26 PM.

  6. #31
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    are you just posting all the different dyno's of stock cars tuned, or cars that have a tune, to new tune?

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, sticky, please remove it.. i only know one "Jason" involved in this type of thing.s if your not, him, i apologize, sticky, please delete if its not THE "Jason"
    I don't like deleting posts but since you both have requested it I will do so.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't like deleting posts but since you both have requested it I will do so.
    ONLY if its not really him.. if he is that guy, $#@! him.. but if not, my apologies Click here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    are you just posting all the different dyno's of stock cars tuned, or cars that have a tune, to new tune?
    Originally I was trying to post just tune before/after. 2 of them had air filters+tunes... Once I was satisfied that the Gintani dynos were manipulated (the PC vs OE and the OE vs stock), I started looking at any Gintani or OE dynos I can dig up to see if the same trends are present.



    Click here to enlarge


    rpm % gain
    2500
    3000
    3500
    4000 4.6%
    4500 5.7%
    5000 6.0%
    5500 6.2%
    6000 6.4%
    6500 6.3%
    7000 6.7%
    7500 6.8%
    8000 6.6%



    And a dyno that likely has been manipulated but also has real differences:

    Click here to enlarge

    rpm % gain
    2500 0.0%
    3000 15.0%
    3500 2.4%
    4000 3.5%
    4500 4.1%
    5000 3.7%
    5500 4.1%
    6000 4.1%
    6500 3.5%
    7000 4.1%
    7500 4.3%
    8000 7.3%
    Last edited by spdu4ea; 03-25-2011 at 11:26 PM.

  10. #35
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    i guess mike@ powerchip went to gintani "There is a major development in all of this. I went to Gintani to verify the results. I will post up later tonight when I return home.

    The truth will surface."

    lol is the gintani bashing ever going to end? i would think people would be a little more mature considering they're driving m3
    m3

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inter1032 Click here to enlarge
    i guess mike@ powerchip went to gintani "There is a major development in all of this. I went to Gintani to verify the results. I will post up later tonight when I return home.

    The truth will surface."

    lol is the gintani bashing ever going to end? i would think people would be a little more mature considering they're driving m3
    I really don't know what Mike is trying to do but I would advise him to stop if what Jeremy told me was true.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ONLY if its not really him.. if he is that guy, $#@! him.. but if not, my apologies Click here to enlarge
    We went over it before, he isn't that Jason, he is a different Jason.

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  13. #38
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    you still havent answered my question- red-green-orange. which of these 2 runs are you getting the % from?

  14. #39
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    Jeremy's response:


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sales@Gintani.com Click here to enlarge
    I will describe in order the graphs attached. Please note that the time of each run is displayed to show transparency. Details for the same run appear in the same color.

    1. “All PC Baselines - run4,5,6 after a long cool down” - HP vs. AFR. base lines were run with a 20 minute cool down before running 4,5,6. This is to give the best possible baseline (which we used). I am a believer of “best vs. best”.
    2. “All PC Baselines - run4,5,6 after a long cool down” - HP vs. Tq
    3. “AFR baseline vs. Gintani-OE Tune (hot and cold runs)” - best PC baseline vs. Gintani/OE Tuned runs. Tuned runs warm and cooled down. (a 15 minute cool down in between runs) Note also AFR has changed.
    4. “Tractive effort rear roller baseline vs. OE tuned” - Dynos reads “tractive effort” and calculates other variables form these figures. Directly related to Torque output.
    5. “Road speed baseline vs. OE tuned” – Road speed is spot on displaying same “ramp up rate”
    6. “Acceleration baseline vs. OE tuned” – Measured acceleration
    7. “Ambient Pressure baseline vs. OE tuned” - Ambient Pressure
    8. “Ambient Temperature baseline vs. OE tuned” – Ambient Temperature.
    9. “Relative humidity baseline vs. OE tuned” – Relative Humidity

    To give the PC tune the best possible chance to make power, a cool down time of 20 minutes was taken to see if numbers improved (check corresponding times on pictured runs). I/Alex are not like Powerchip, taking the least performing baseline run then comparing to the best tuned run. I hope that the attached dynos and the details are transparent. A variance of less than 1 degree in temperature is nothing I would expect to gain power from. In actual fact the environment was in PC’s favor each time. As Powerchip, staff and management, have never owned or plan to own a dyno, I find it hard for them to comment on the equipment used they know little about. Perhaps readers/”experts” can find something to nitpick over in these graphs?
    I believe if you don’t know what you are doing or saying, don’t pick a fight with someone who will disprove you. I have many other failed PC dynos to post for those interested (other companies also).
    Michael Benveniste (Mike Benvo, mike@powerchip) came in today wanting to “fudge” numbers on our dyno to prove his agenda. I will clearly state: “We use and rely on the Dyno Dynamics weather station to control environment, which cannot be tampered with.” Benvo, turned off the weather station to perform manipulations to environment conditions, which causes an immediate on screen warning to notify of this happening. (Mike taking orders over the phone of what to do). Not the way to do things in business. Graphs posted give the details of what Benvo was told to look for.
    We want real world conditions, or how do we know/prove our own products work? We will show as a courtesy to any and all customers wanting proof, the weather station is on, just to prove a point. We do what is right is the bottom line. We want our products to be the best no matter what or where the testing ground. Please test any and all our products independently just as others do.
    I concentrate on tuning and product development, I have no time to gone on further.

    Regards,

    Jeremy
    Click here to enlarge

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    Last edited by spdu4ea; 03-26-2011 at 12:13 AM.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Jeremy's response:
    I'm actually putting this in another thread.

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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Jeremy's response:
    Here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...92-M3-S65-tune

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  17. #42
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    A lot of bans on m3post over this... what a joke.

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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    A lot of bans on m3post over this... what a joke.
    looks like pg was one of them
    m3

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inter1032 Click here to enlarge
    looks like pg was one of them
    as was I.. again.. Id say this would shut the huggers up, but nothing ever does. just run the cars.. easy fix..

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inter1032 Click here to enlarge
    looks like pg was one of them
    I find that quite amusing.

    Hoping that more people realize they can only open discuss these topics here.

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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    as was I.. again.. Id say this would shut the huggers up, but nothing ever does. just run the cars.. easy fix..
    You mean do so something other than talk about your collection of dynos? Please, that isn't their style. The strip is for fools apparently.

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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The strip is for fools apparently.
    and doesnt accuratly portray the cars power and abilties .. Click here to enlarge

  23. #48
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    3 things...

    1st: I'm not affiliated with powerchip, ESS, AA, GIAC, etc. While I'm not free of all bias (if anything, it used to be towards Gintani), I think I'm about as objective as you're likely to find.


    2nd: As Evolve mentioned, Jeremy @ Gintani's impressive list of graphs still left out some manipulatable factors. Personally I'd just like to see the correction factors for each run -- graphed if possible (since their own screenshots displayed a certain fondness for photo editing software).


    3rd: I apologize for not being as clear as I could have been in my initial post. I see now that many people looked at this graph:

    Click here to enlarge

    ...and thought "Hmm... That is unusual but it doesn't prove anything."



    To those people: The probability of this "unusual" distribution occurring naturally is 0.003% (0.00003). In a world with few absolutes, I'll call this proof:

    Your normal bell curve:
    Click here to enlarge

    Where the tuners fall on that curve:
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #49
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    ^ what is the graph? I dont understand it...maybe im missing something
    Current:
    14 Viper TA
    Wsir - 1:28:9
    Buttonwillow C13 - 1:54:1

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
    ^ what is the graph? I dont understand it...maybe im missing something
    i think he is showing that the graph he has posted, OE seems to be more likely to have done this. how he figures that, i have no idea, but im sure with an agenda, he can justify it any way he wants in his head

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