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  1. #51
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    You're misconstrued if you think I am comparing Pectel to Pro EFI. I am not. And sorry bud, but I have friends with Pectel units and they do cost significantly more than "the box price". I personally don't like the Pro EFI. What I said was, is, "Vipec and Pro EFI are much more affordable than Pectel." And they are. Plain. Fact. Simple. See below.

    How's this?

    SQ6 Dual Lambda Upgrade $ 385.00
    E008 SQ6 2MB Logging Memory U/G $ 290.00
    E009 SQ6 Traction Control U/G $ 480.00
    E010 SQ6 Fly By Wire Upgrade $ 385.00
    E011 SQ6 Gear controller code upgrade $1715.00

    These prices still reflect an excellent value - the base SQ-6 goes for $3985.

    -Neel
    From Neel himself - call it $4,000 with shipping BEFORE OPTIONS.. NO HARNESS. Lets see - a 12 pin Deutsch connector is $30. You can see how that will add up quick. BMW doesn't have a MAP sensor, so add in a Kavlico transducers @ $200 w/ connectors. Oil temp sensor? My BMW didn't have one. Another $40. Fuel pressure and oil pressure sensors? Two more Kavlico transducers please (no inaccurate VDO crap for me) - that's $400. So without even scraping the icing we're at $600 for pressure sensors that BMWs don't have from the factory (no, the oil pressure sensor in the BMW oil housing does not read pressure, it just goes open below certain pressure). We haven't even gotten into wheel speed sensors. Typical Tefzel 3 conductor shield wire is what, $5+ a foot? Need about 30' of that for 1 crank and 2 cam sensors to not run tight - $150. Crimp tool is what, $100 - $300 depending which you go with. Now all you need to do is buy all of the other wire rofl. Figure $300 - $500 in raw materials with NO connectors anywhere (other than what is included with sensors listed above). EGT sensors? Nope, BMW didn't come with those. Add two of those @ $80 ea minimally. Now add your options in. You're at $4600 with some necessary sensors, $5,000 if you wire it yourself, $5200 if you add EGT... and you haven't added:

    E008 SQ6 2MB Logging Memory U/G $ 290.00
    E009 SQ6 Traction Control U/G $ 480.00
    E010 SQ6 Fly By Wire Upgrade $ 385.00

    So after all of that, the price would be $6,355 TOTAL. Now, throw in another $600 - 700 if you have a professional build your loom. This is, of course, assuming you're not using autosport connectors or many connectors in the loom itself, as well and you have the crimp tool for any connector you need.

    I am not talking about the price of the box. We all know the price of the box "isn't that bad". But, like many ECUs, the price of the box is just the tip. I don't know of a factory turbo S54 that has all the sensors necessary to do what the basic person would want. Once you add that all in (and don't shortcut yourself) you are looking at a box exactly in the price range I mentioned originally.

    You seem to forget - cosworth is a customer of ours - my prices are not fictitious. You also seem to forget that I have done this many times for many different ECUs. A VEMS looks great at around $600 - $800. Then add everything in you need (and mostly, time!) boom - expensive. DTA comes in around $1500 - $2000 for the box. Add in everything you need - boom - expensive. All ECU's are the same. Since the motors didn't come turbo with the necessary sensors, you have to add that in. Plain, and honestly, quite simple -

    If you'd like to call me wrong I can even provide part numbers Click here to enlarge


  2. #52
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    I just don't understand why you keep presenting your argument as if any of these costs are a function of the Pectel/Cosworth system. They apply to ANY S54 standalone system.

    From Neel himself - call it $4,000 with shipping BEFORE OPTIONS.. NO HARNESS. Lets see - a 12 pin Deutsch connector is $30. You can see how that will add up quick. BMW doesn't have a MAP sensor, so add in a Kavlico transducers @ $200 w/ connectors. Oil temp sensor? My BMW didn't have one. Another $40. Fuel pressure and oil pressure sensors? Two more Kavlico transducers please (no inaccurate VDO crap for me) - that's $400. So without even scraping the icing we're at $600 for pressure sensors that BMWs don't have from the factory (no, the oil pressure sensor in the BMW oil housing does not read pressure, it just goes open below certain pressure). We haven't even gotten into wheel speed sensors. Typical Tefzel 3 conductor shield wire is what, $5+ a foot? Need about 30' of that for 1 crank and 2 cam sensors to not run tight - $150. Crimp tool is what, $100 - $300 depending which you go with. Now all you need to do is buy all of the other wire rofl. Figure $300 - $500 in raw materials with NO connectors anywhere (other than what is included with sensors listed above). EGT sensors? Nope, BMW didn't come with those. Add two of those @ $80 ea minimally. Now add your options in. You're at $4600 with some necessary sensors, $5,000 if you wire it yourself, $5200 if you add EGT... and you haven't added:

    E008 SQ6 2MB Logging Memory U/G $ 290.00
    E009 SQ6 Traction Control U/G $ 480.00
    E010 SQ6 Fly By Wire Upgrade $ 385.00

    So after all of that, the price would be $6,355 TOTAL. Now, throw in another $600 - 700 if you have a professional build your loom. This is, of course, assuming you're not using autosport connectors or many connectors in the loom itself, as well and you have the crimp tool for any connector you need.
    I cannot make this point ANY MORE CLEARER:

    None of this applies to the Pectel exclusively - THIS WOULD BE THE CASE WITH ANY ECU - FROM DTA TO BOSCH MOTORSPORTS. Continually hammering on this without conceding that these costs apply to ANY ECU kit, not just Pectel, sounds very dishonest.

    To me and several people I've spoken to, you might as well be saying "The Pectel kit costs $20,000 because you have to buy an E46 M3 to put it on!"

    So please stop making this system seem more expensive by a large margin and confirm or deny the following point:

    "The Pectel cost $1100 more for the ECU hardware which is technically quite a bit more capable than anything else on the market. All other costs involved in the system are the same or cheaper to any other system you purchase."


    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  3. #53
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    Neel - I feel you don't read in full what is written. What is dishonest? Every single ECU I mentioned I stated that "The box is....$____.... add in ____..... = expensive"

    No one is being dishonest. But saying a base pectel starts at $4k is fine. However, $4k and and some features / sensors is $6k+ - its just how it works. Which is exactly what I said the ECU would come in around once properly quoted.

    I'll quote myself yet again:

    And I didn't mention DTA as "affordable". Everyone who asks me "Should I go with a DTA?" I first say "well... take the box price... and add about $2k on it. I am completely honest...
    No one is being dishonest. You sell Pectel and love it - that's great. I am not even pushing an specific ECU. All I said was "ProEFI and Vipec are more affordable" and you continue to tell me I am wrong lol. Is Pectel powerful? Sure. Does it offer "better" things? Sure. Is it more money? Yes. Period. The end of debate. $4k > $2k. All systems need sensors and harnesses. When you figure $2000 for harnesses, connectors, sensors, etc., $4k = $6k, and $2k = $4k. So, is Pectel more affordable? No. That's what I specifically said up front.

    You keep saying its $1100 more but Vipec V88 is $2k shipped to me. That means Pectel is $1895 more Click here to enlarge That's nearly $2,000 more. Would I prefer a Pectel over a Vipec? Sure. But I'd prefer a Bosch Motorsport box over a Pectel. See? Things aren't arbitrary - everything is price driven. When I look at a connector I can get a GM weatherpack for $3 or DTM connector for $15. Most ordinary people would say "What's the difference?" and I am left trying to justify the 5x cost to someone who doesn't really care how wires meet. If I told someone that I prefer a specific ECU because it offers a 12 bit ADC on a certain sensor vs the other only having 10 bit, they would likely say "Ok, whatever that is, but its 50% more expensive..." -- Vipec V88 is a good ECU. ProEFI is a good ECU. Pectel is a good ECU. Pectel is more expensive by a good chunk. Therefore, the original claim that "Vipec V88 and ProEFI are much more affordable" is valid and you're arguing for no reason. If you can sell me a Pectel box NIB for $2000 I would say "I am wrong". But you can't - its a $4k box with no extra features. Its nearly $5k once you add in the basic requirements for a turbo BMW. $2k vs $4k is a big difference. $2k vs $5k is a bigger difference. Remind me how I was wrong in my original statement?

    Even once you add the same quality/expense harness to each system, the Pectel is more. That means, as I said, the Vipec and ProEFI are more affordable.


  4. #54
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    but Vipec V88 is $2k shipped to me
    Better not tell Ray Hall, minimum dealer pricing in the US is $2360, any dealer who violates that loses their distributorship. The V88 does not have ignition amplifiers so that adds to the cost right away. At the end of the day, the V88 is not significantly cheaper in the BMW S54 application, and definitely not so for the V8s. I know, we sell dozens of Vi-PECs and they're great ECUs. I'm not going to compare piggybacks like Pro-EFI here, that's a completely invalid comparison.

    $4k box with no extra features
    Where do you get this? Its $4k for a box with more standard features that most.

    Its nearly $5k once you add in the basic requirements for a turbo BMW
    Its hard not to get frustrated with this. You need nothing besides the $3985 standard ECU do you need for a turbo BMW.

    Your posts are not clear, they misrepresent the facts, and this is why I have spent so much of my time responding to you. I think at this point I am bowing out of this discussion; people reading this thread should take time to contact us before they draw any conclusions on ECU pricing or features.

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Your posts are not clear, they misrepresent the facts, and this is why I have spent so much of my time responding to you. I think at this point I am bowing out of this discussion; people reading this thread should take time to contact us before they draw any conclusions on ECU pricing or features.
    We highly recommend anyone who has any questions regarding Pectel or any standalones for that matter to deal directly with you / Apex Speed Technology.

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