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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    A few customers demanded it. And we had the hardware/functionality to do it right. And it was a fun little challenge.
    cool , sounds like fun.

    Is it currently on your car or just the customers that wanted it?

  2. #27
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    Not to get in the middle of the poop fest but its pretty interesting. We have yet to try nitrous on our shop n54 however it would be fun to run a wet shot considering we have the profuel controller that allows the standback to actually run / tune the nitrous in on a 30x30 map directly with your tune. In all of the market research we have done I would have to say that some of the accusations above are very very exagerated. I won't go into detail but we have a great relationship with all vendors for this platform -1. I have run all three ecu's on my car. I have played with all three of the newest versions. Its unfortunate that competition has turned this volitile.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
    It still seems that you don't understand how CPS offsetting works. What it does is limits the maximum advance the ECU tries to achieve. If you only want the DME to target 5 deg of advance in stead of say 7 degrees of advance, you apply a -2 deg offset. Of courses, if either of these targets are beyond the knock threshold, neither will be achieved. I really have a hard time believing that you don't understand this. But rather you keep up this charade just so others, who truly don't understand this concept, feel better about their tune and blindly repeat your mantra (see post above).

    As for engine failures, I'd like to know more. However, based upon your $#@! and leave scare tactics, I don't think I'm going to.

    Back to subject, install nitrous on your engine if you are comfortable with controlling it with a boost controller. Until then, pollute some other thread with your nonsense. And yes, your nonsense has become pretty outlandish as of late. Must have something to do with the classifieds section.

    Shiv
    On the CPS, we're both well aware of how the system works. There are applications for CPS but its strongly oversold as a safety feature. Generally the offset induced is not enough to clear the knock threshold and there is net-net no benefit in terms of safety or performance to it.

    On nitrous BMS has been looking at customer nitrous datalogs/dyno runs/timeslips for the past six months. Most running *real* wideband sensor systems for air/fuel analysis along with BT logs. And we've learned quite a bit about what works and what doesn't work.

    Funny stuff re: classifieds. Almost as funny as calling a nitrous solenoid fired off a relay progressive.

    There are north of 3500 JB3 systems out there now growing by 100-130 per month. Someone who bought the very first JB3 can update it to the latest hardware for $65. And our customers are loving 2.0. Naturally JB3 is a popular commodity that holds its value well ($1500 PROcede V3 for $100 a year later anyone?) and is bought and sold often. Normally as customers demod/return leases but some that switch over to other products.

    You like to propigate this myth that JB3 customers switch over to the PROcede in mass. Some do, but as many or more PROcede customers go our way as well frustrated with the lack of support and performance they are getting from you. In reality I've had more reports of customers switching to flashes from local tuners. And that was the the main catalyst for further improving the drivability and softer aspects of the tuning in 2.0.

  4. #29
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    I enjoy a lively debate gentlemen, but let's keep the topic at hand. Click here to enlarge

    I'm glad that we can actually see conversations going back and forth though!

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    On the CPS, we're both well aware of how the system works. There are applications for CPS but its strongly oversold as a safety feature. Generally the offset induced is not enough to clear the knock threshold and there is net-net no benefit in terms of safety or performance to it.

    On nitrous BMS has been looking at customer nitrous datalogs/dyno runs/timeslips for the past six months. Most running *real* wideband sensor systems for air/fuel analysis along with BT logs. And we've learned quite a bit about what works and what doesn't work.

    Funny stuff re: classifieds. Almost as funny as calling a nitrous solenoid fired off a relay progressive.

    There are north of 3500 JB3 systems out there now growing by 100-130 per month. Someone who bought the very first JB3 can update it to the latest hardware for $65. And our customers are loving 2.0. Naturally JB3 is a popular commodity that holds its value well ($1500 PROcede V3 for $100 a year later anyone?) and is bought and sold often. Normally as customers demod/return leases but some that switch over to other products.

    You like to propigate this myth that JB3 customers switch over to the PROcede in mass. Some do, but as many or more PROcede customers go our way as well frustrated with the lack of support and performance they are getting from you. In reality I've had more reports of customers switching to flashes from local tuners. And that was the the main catalyst for further improving the drivability and softer aspects of the tuning in 2.0.
    Whatever makes you sleep well at night Terry. I would never accuse you of following our lead. You never do that Click here to enlarge

    Shiv

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    cool , sounds like fun.

    Is it currently on your car or just the customers that wanted it?
    Im sure you just missed it, but i ask because im curious if you are tuning through customers cars or on your own?

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Im sure you just missed it, but i ask because im curious if you are tuning through customers cars or on your own?
    My own car of course. I'm not going to test/develop a nitrous control system in a customer car.

  8. #33
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    cool. how many months/weeks have you been testing this?

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    cool. how many months/weeks have you been testing this?
    The hardware has only been installed on my car for less than 2 weeks. But we've been putting together controlling logic for some time. But to be fair, a lot of it (conditional-based map switching) was already done with our methanol control logic. So it really wasn't a big deal. Most of the work was figuring out the actual nominal condition values that need to be met before nitrous as armed. Putting together the actual arming logic, itself, only took an hour of code.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    It still seems that you don't understand how CPS offsetting works. What it does is limits the maximum advance the ECU tries to achieve. If you only want the DME to target 5 deg of advance in stead of say 7 degrees of advance, you apply a -2 deg offset. Of courses, if either of these targets are beyond the knock threshold, neither will be achieved. I really have a hard time believing that you don't understand this. But rather you keep up this charade just so others, who truly don't understand this concept, feel better about their tune and blindly repeat your mantra (see post above).

    As for engine failures, I'd like to know more. However, based upon your $#@! and leave scare tactics, I don't think I'm going to.

    Back to subject, install nitrous on your engine if you are comfortable with controlling it with a boost controller. Until then, pollute some other thread with your nonsense. And yes, your nonsense has become pretty outlandish as of late. Must have something to do with the classifieds section.

    Shiv
    Nice to see you are your pleasant self over here as well, and continue the I am the only one who can do anything correctly and everybody else's products are subpar mentality. I am sure you will be winning over just as many customers here as you do on the other forums. You notice that its whenever you post in threads that things go south? (Post #13 in this thread - Everything was fine up to that cheap shot)

    Mike

  11. #36
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    A .18 jet size, what "HP" shot is that?

    Shiv, did you use the same size jets as the OP or go through various sizes?

    In your "other" post you said mph started @ 126.38 and then went up. what did you change between runs, just lean out or something else?

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge
    its nice to see them arguing on a forum that dosent ban people randomly...
    threads like this are very knowledgeable

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mike@n54tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    Nice to see you are your pleasant self over here as well, and continue the I am the only one who can do anything correctly and everybody else's products are subpar mentality. I am sure you will be winning over just as many customers here as you do on the other forums. You notice that its whenever you post in threads that things go south? (Post #13 in this thread - Everything was fine up to that cheap shot)

    Mike
    not much of a cheap shot if its true. From what Ive seen terry's shots are much worst then shivs

    Also if I remember correctly on the last thread on the other forum terry was the first to draw blood and the members all agreed too it so I wouldn't say that because of shiv things go south.
    Last edited by lamia2super; 03-30-2010 at 03:12 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    A .18 jet size, what "HP" shot is that?

    Shiv, did you use the same size jets as the OP or go through various sizes?

    In your "other" post you said mph started @ 126.38 and then went up. what did you change between runs, just lean out or something else?
    I really don't know what a .18 is rated at. All I know is that it gave me less than a few horsepower on the dyno. I believe I ended up with a 0.32 jet after dyno testing with several sizes in between. All the drag strip testing was done with that jet. The only changes I made at the dragstrip had do to with underlying boost control, nitrous activation conditionals, and amount of ignition retard when nitrous was active. Between the first and second trips to the strip, I did upsize my secondary/staged meth nozzle from an M7 to an M10 which may or may not have been overkill.

    Shiv

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mike@n54tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    Nice to see you are your pleasant self over here as well, and continue the I am the only one who can do anything correctly and everybody else's products are subpar mentality. I am sure you will be winning over just as many customers here as you do on the other forums. You notice that its whenever you post in threads that things go south? (Post #13 in this thread - Everything was fine up to that cheap shot)

    Mike
    I don't think that was a "cheap shot" by any means. I was merely stating fact. And please don't make this personal.

    Shiv

  16. #41
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    This popcorn is DELICIOUS.... Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Click here to enlarge
    Not to get in the middle of the poop fest but its pretty interesting. We have yet to try nitrous on our shop n54 however it would be fun to run a wet shot considering we have the profuel controller that allows the standback to actually run / tune the nitrous in on a 30x30 map directly with your tune. In all of the market research we have done I would have to say that some of the accusations above are very very exagerated. I won't go into detail but we have a great relationship with all vendors for this platform -1. I have run all three ecu's on my car. I have played with all three of the newest versions. Its unfortunate that competition has turned this volitile.
    How concerned would you be with the assertions of puddling in the intake manifold with a wet shot?

    Additionally, it is becoming clear an independent tune test needs to happen Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    a good old terry vs. shiv rivalry.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tag824 Click here to enlarge
    guess i lost all my rep's... later bro's

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Actually none of the piggybacks control timing. You'd need a flash tune or direct coil control to block the ECU from putting the timing you just offset via CPS right back in. Interestingly enough in most pump gas comparisons (where timing is critical) the JB3 has performed stronger than the other tunes offering CPS offsetting. And we know where it stands on race gas/meth.

    But it's funny to hear tuners preach about safety first given their shaky track record on the subject. Like the PROcede V2 that was known to often decide to run 20psi boost and took out a couple motors. More important than actual safety to them is the illusion of safety. Which is why CPS offsetting fits with their marketing concept perfectly. Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    If none of the piggy's adjust timing then I do not see the point of mentioning it with piggy tuning unless someone actually is adjusting timing here? I definitely see where timing control is important with nitrous especially depending on the fuel quality and shot size but who is adjusting timing? No one with a piggyback apparently.

    Results have been great without adjusting timing thus far but it is still early. Longevity is a whole different issue.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mike@n54tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    Nice to see you are your pleasant self over here as well, and continue the I am the only one who can do anything correctly and everybody else's products are subpar mentality. I am sure you will be winning over just as many customers here as you do on the other forums. You notice that its whenever you post in threads that things go south? (Post #13 in this thread - Everything was fine up to that cheap shot)

    Mike
    There are shots from both sides. So far, things have been restrained and respectful enough considering what is involved but I think response style may be misconstrued a bit. Questions are being answered and information is put out there. There is a lot of meat here. Often people take me the wrong way as well but I have read a lot of good info from everyone thus far in between the jabs. Things don't always have to be covered with sprinkles to make a good point Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Results have been great without adjusting timing thus far but it is still early. Longevity is a whole different issue.
    In general we have tens of millions (likely hundreds of millions by now) of customer miles by which to evaluate the JB3s great reliability. The only question left is how does nitrous change the equation. It's definitely not for the faint of heart and I fully expect to see motor and drivetrain failures from those who don't take caution and ignore the guidelines we set forth. But normally people shooting for 10 second time-slips already understand the risks involved, know how to datalog, and know what to look for in those logs.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mike@n54tuning.com Click here to enlarge
    Nice to see you are your pleasant self over here as well, and continue the I am the only one who can do anything correctly and everybody else's products are subpar mentality. I am sure you will be winning over just as many customers here as you do on the other forums. You notice that its whenever you post in threads that things go south? (Post #13 in this thread - Everything was fine up to that cheap shot)

    Mike
    Whatever Terry. Click here to enlarge

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    If none of the piggy's adjust timing then I do not see the point of mentioning it with piggy tuning unless someone actually is adjusting timing here? I definitely see where timing control is important with nitrous especially depending on the fuel quality and shot size but who is adjusting timing? No one with a piggyback apparently.

    Results have been great without adjusting timing thus far but it is still early. Longevity is a whole different issue.
    You are being purposely misled. Just like when BMS stated that the JB3 offered timing control/CPS offsetting only to be proven, by 3rd party testing, that it didn't exist. BMS responded by saying that they forgot to remove it from the promotional material and that they recently opted for a "better" method of timing control which they refused to reveal, suggesting that it was a secret approached that they developed. This was soon revealed to be no approach whatsoever, instead letting the DME trim ignition timing based upon normal knock control feedback. That's even more surprising is that post release, Terry was even caught posting on his forum about different maps having more or less CPS/timing offset. Kinda funny considering that, by their own admission, it was never released.

    And the reason it was never released is because the PIC they use in the JB3 doesn't have that capability. And the challenge for them to prove otherwise is now over 1 year old and forgotten.

    Sticky-- There is a long history of Terry's behavior. Most of which got him banned from both e90post and 1addicts. He's continuting this nonsense here and on his forum, hoping that readers accept his word over reality.

    Shiv
    Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 03-30-2010 at 08:10 PM.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    You are being purposely misled.
    Go ahead and set things straight, whatever it is that you consider straight is. Everyone is open to contribute technically here.

    Maybe I do not understand, but from what I have read, piggybacks do not adjust timing, correct? So, therefore, with the tuning solutions being piggybacks no one can adjust timing with a piggyback, is that correct?

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    Are we still talking about shots of nitrous? Click here to enlarge

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