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    Methonal - Facts v. Myths

    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363385

    I've been following this thread on M3post and have heard the arguments both pro and against. There are a few questions I had and wanted answers to without bias. Is claim that Sal@ Evolve is making true? Does methonal lead to engine failure? Thanks.

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    Man... no one even mentions I had and have been running methanol successfully on the S65 with higher boost on 91 octane with no hiccups.

    I'll read through it now.

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    That whole thread is extremely misleading and I just don't understand the purpose. What is Sal@evolve trying to do here?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve
    Now for some further information on the G-Power failures.


    First car:
    The kit was sold as an SK I and then upgraded as an SK II during the install. G-POWER shipped this supercharger with the indication that the car should only get 100 AKI octane gas. It seems that this indication wasn’t clear enough or well communicated because the information never given to the end customer. The customer was driving with 91 AKI octane, the engine was knocking, the software couldn’t correct the ignition enough which had a bad consequence, the engine blew up… Anyway G-POWER helped the customer.

    Second car:
    The second kit was sold as an SK II with the setting for 91 AKI octane but was installed with Methanol injection. This was installed without permission. Methanol injection didn’t allow to measure the knocking correctly (because of the type of knock detection system these cars come with) so the engine blew up on the dyno…As with the first kit, customer was helped with the engine.

    Lesson to be learnt for buyers of any supercharger kits - don't use Methanol!
    1st Lesson to be learnt for suppliers of supercharger kits - don't listen to anyone and always supply a tune for worst case scenario!

    2nd lesson to be learnt for suppliers of supercharger kits - If people use methanol or anything that is not authorised don't replace the engine - why? Once you replace an engine you have in some way accepted responsibility and you get blamed for the failure instead!

    The first supercharger kit from the above is still on a car and the tune is for 100 AKI octance only yet owner was still running 91 Octane!!

    I'm sure the above will cause some controversy but I can assure you, a few of us have done quite alot of research on this topic and aquired information from many sources. Explains why no other engine around the world blew because of knocking!

    I hope this is finally put to bed and I sincerely hope ESS and Gintani don't have the same problems. However, this is likely as it is rumoured that a few people are trying to add methanol to their kits also and the inevitable WILL happen. If this happens then it's likely your tune will blamed!
    Ok, what do the Gpower failures have to do with people running meth (successfully.... with no blown motors, and the top power and acceleration records) ? Seriously, what do they have to do with it?

    The Gpower kit was never tuned properly to begin with. You add meth to a ticking time bomb, it is still a ticking time bomb. It doesn't matter.

    Plus, you don't just add meth and say hey, I'm done, yay. It really depends what you are trying to do. My vehicle was custom tuned for it. I intend to run with it. I have a large custom tank for this very reason along with various safety measures to let me know the level. If the meth runs out, and the car is tuned for it, and I am running more boost, and I fill up with 91, I don't think it would be super smart of me to push it super hard.

    Secondly, meth has been used successfully on MANY forced induction applications. Why is it being tied to a vehicle that ran meth on a tune that was bad to begin with? Why is that being shown as a "warning" ?

    Something to keep in mind, ESS has no water-meth tune. ESS has no water meth cars. I don't know Evolve personally, but is there some connection I may be missing here?

    Saying not to use methanol, is just plain stupid. Especially if you run on 91 octane, use it! Have an extra safety net. Some gas stations have been known to provide far lower than 91 from their 91 pumps. It won't hurt you, saying not to run it is just... stupid.

    HPF has a LONG history of successfully showing meth with the S54, on HUGE boost applications in comparison. I just don't understand his thinking or his purpose here. Saying don't use methanol is just plain stupid.

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    a few of us have done quite alot of research on this topic and aquired information from many sources. Explains why no other engine around the world blew because of knocking!
    Who? Leman's Blue? No thanks.

    What is the research? Whose research? Where is it? Who did it?

    Is this guy blaming G-power blows on Meth? Is that the goal?

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    All i know is Sal's account of what happend with the G-power cars is wrong.

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    Sal@Evolve
    Now for some further information on the G-Power failures.


    First car: Tighties
    The kit was sold as an SK I and then upgraded as an SK II weeks later. It was upraded because after the orginal install the car never made the power it was supposed to and the power curves looked way off. G-POWER's owner personally saw and drove the car after the upgrade and even tuned it locally because the timing was jacked up so high that even when driven on straight 100oct race gas the car had major hesitation problems. The whole point of chris driving the car was to tune it to fix the problem and it pretty much never happend.Once the race gas was proven to not fix the problem their answer was one of the intake horns in the manifold broke off and the car couldn't drive properly The customer was driving with 91 AKI octane, the engine was knocking, the software couldn’t correct the ignition enough which had a bad consequence, the engine blew up… Anyway G-POWER helped the customer. Since it was the high timing that killed the car. Meth injection was installed about a week before the car blew to see if it would fix the still present hesitation problems. It didn't obviously.

    Second car: Jonmartin
    The second kit was sold as an SK II with the setting for 100aki octane, It was tuned for 100 even though the customer never wanted a 100aki octane tune and was never aware that it was supposed to be ran on that octane.The car blew within 3 weeks of install and Initially it was blamed on the lack of installation of Race grade spark plugs. Meth injection was never installed on this car. G-power paid to rebuild the engine.


    Lesson to be learnt for suppliers of supercharger kits - Make sure proper documentaion is included with your kit clearly stating the octane to be used with the installed ECU tune.

    The first supercharger kit from the above is still on a car and the tune is for 100 AKI octance only yet owner was still running 96 Octane which is fine for between 96-100aki according to the G-power dealer.

    I hope this is finally put to bed and I sincerely hope ESS and Gintani don't have the same problems. However, this is likely as it is rumoured that a few people are trying to add methanol to their kits also and nothing will happen if it was properly tuned to begin with. If something does happens then it's likely your tune will blamed!
    I modified his post This is what he should have posted because this is the correct story. Accoding to someone who actually had the kit on their car and still does on another E92 M3.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    I modified his post This is what he should have posted because this is the correct story. Accoding to someone who actually had the kit on their car and still does on another E92 M3.
    So insanely freaking frustrating this can't be posted there.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So insanely freaking frustrating this can't be posted there.
    Indeed

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    If this is actually what happened why did tightie accept the car if it was never running right? He should have told them to get the kit working right or take it off, no?

    Why don't they allow you to post this over there? Because it is considered knocking G-Power?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr. Bails Click here to enlarge
    If this is actually what happened why did tightie accept the car if it was never running right? He should have told them to get the kit working right or take it off, no?

    Why don't they allow you to post this over there? Because it is considered knocking G-Power?
    Because Jonmartin is banned and info from here is not allowed to be posted.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr. Bails Click here to enlarge
    If this is actually what happened why did tightie accept the car if it was never running right? He should have told them to get the kit working right or take it off, no?

    Why don't they allow you to post this over there? Because it is considered knocking G-Power?
    Its not knocking G-power Its the truth I mean I have nothing to lose or gain to lie about it and I still have a G-power kit on a car I just got and its about to get upgraded again by them. All I'm saying is that his version of the story is off wrong and that meth doesn't blow motors. But as sticky said I've been banned.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    Its not knocking G-power Its the truth I mean I have nothing to lose or gain to lie about it and I still have a G-power kit on a car I just got and its about to get upgraded again by them. All I'm saying is that his version of the story is off wrong and that meth doesn't blow motors. But as sticky said I've been banned.
    I know most of you guys are banned, but I wasn't sure you're all ip banned, but I guess so. It sucks for people like me who are interested in FI, but are still waiting out how things are going to play out. Valuable information like your post will not be read by many people in my situation.

    It's good to know you still like their product even though they blew up your M3. What car do you have now with a G-Powre kit? M6?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr. Bails Click here to enlarge
    I know most of you guys are banned, but I wasn't sure you're all ip banned, but I guess so. It sucks for people like me who are interested in FI, but are still waiting out how things are going to play out. Valuable information like your post will not be read by many people in my situation.

    It's good to know you still like their product even though they blew up your M3. What car do you have now with a G-Powre kit? M6?
    Well, we are here to share info.

    If they truly cared about sharing info and people like yourself, you would think they would allow it to be shared, right?

    Many of us have been IP banned again and again... that doesn't really matter. It just isn't worth posting there, we just hope for people like yourself to see valuable info here and come here for it, instead of going out of our way for them to have the correct info which they punish us for.

    It is still an M3.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So insanely freaking frustrating this can't be posted there.
    I will post the info tomorrow.

    My ban lifts tomrrow at 2pm.

    Maybe I should message PG, so the post isn't instantly deleted. Shouldn't members hear from the actually people that owned the the two G-power M3's?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    I will post the info tomorrow.

    My ban lifts tomrrow at 2pm.

    Maybe I should message PG, so the post isn't instantly deleted. Shouldn't members hear from the actually people that owned the the two G-power M3's?
    Honestly, I would prefer for BimmerBoost content to remain on BimmerBoost. Why should they get our stuff and not acknowledge it?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, I would prefer for BimmerBoost content to remain on BimmerBoost. Why should they get our stuff and not acknowledge it?
    Thats cool.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Thats cool.
    You know what, it is probably best for people to know the info is out there.

    You could say something along the lines of "This is not the complete story I have heard different somewhere else." You don't have to say where to find it (they would ban you), or anything like that, but if you want to share there is more to it for the benefit of the community, I won't stop you.

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    There are hundreds of thousands of cars that run meth without issue, but Evolve and Cleveland know more than all these people? EVO's, WRK's, SRT-4's, ect. ect.; they all love meth! There are HPF kits running meth with nearly 40k miles on them, and these kits are running 100% pure meth and for the stage 2.5 cars, the meth is even being used as a fuel source! (If I recall correctly, somewhere around 20% of the fuel is coming from meth!) If a motor is going to corrode or have any issues from the use of meth like is being claimed here, a HPF stage 2.5 car would be more likely than any other car that I know of, and we have yet to see of ANY such thing!

    I agree that a car that is tuned to rely on meth can be dangerous, unless there are fail safes in place. But, if the correct fail safes are in place, there is nothing to worry about.

    Adding meth to a car that isn't tuned for it, can only help (unless too much meth is being injected, causing the car to run too rich). It will reduce IAT's immensely and can increase octane; (octane increase can vary greatly depending on mixture and the amount of meth being used)

    The only thing I can not comment on is their claims about the meth interfering with the new generation ion knock sensing technology. However, by the looks of what has been done so far by Sticky and DLSJ5, it doesn't look that there is anything to worry about. I am waiting and hoping to see some concrete info and data about this subject.

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    ^ What proof is there of meth interfering with new knock sensing technology? Which of them has actually run it with a supercharger? My ecu has reacted fine. What road testing have they done?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That whole thread is extremely misleading and I just don't understand the purpose. What is Sal@evolve trying to do here?

    Something to keep in mind, ESS has no water-meth tune. ESS has no water meth cars. I don't know Evolve personally, but is there some connection I may be missing here?
    I'm fairly new to the e90 scene and that forum, but I can already read into what is going on over there. Unfortunately, it seems there are people that can't, either because they are not as involved in these sort of things to the degree some of us are, or because they tend to read things at face value and not question it's source, more importantly what that source's true agendas and intentions are.

    It seems Evolve is a dealer for both G Power and ESS, both of which do not use or mess with meth. Drew just showed very powerful evidence of how great Gintani's kits are, the community loved it, and Gintani got great recognition from it. Obviously the competitors saw this as a hit to their potential sales and ability to capture more market share then their competitor. Evolve throwing all this nonsense meth stuff around is an attempt to put doubt out there in the consumer market and not allow a slip in market share to a competitors kit in which he is not a dealer of.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    I'm fairly new to the e90 scene and that forum, but I can already read into what is going on over there. Unfortunately, it seems there are people that can't, either because they are not as involved in these sort of things to the degree some of us are, or because they tend to read things at face value and not question it's source, more importantly what that source's true agendas and intentions are.

    It seems Evolve is a dealer for both G Power and ESS, both of which do not use or mess with meth. Drew just showed very powerful evidence of how great Gintani's kits are, the community loved it, and Gintani got great recognition from it. Obviously the competitors saw this as a hit to their potential sales and ability to capture more market share then their competitor. Evolve throwing all this nonsense meth stuff around is an attempt to put doubt out there in the consumer market and not allow a slip in market share to a competitors kit in which he is not a dealer of.
    You know, your critical thinking is pretty good.

    I probably would have used some profanity, well done Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You know, your critical thinking is pretty good.

    I probably would have used some profanity, well done Click here to enlarge
    Thanks. I let the anger out yesterday slightly, and those posts were all deleted over there.

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    to back up Sticky and everyone for water/meth, i have also been running it for a while. ive had meth installed and running on my car since August of 2008. Not once has there been an issue or concern where i had to open my trunk, and check wiring, or look at the front solenoid for leaks, or anything for that matter. the only maintenance i have to do is fill up the 2.5 gallon tank every couple months Click here to enlarge

    EDIT: and now with the Procede having a harness update where it can read methanol flow in mL/min, the progressive mapping should be done shortly. on the user end, we have to make a slight adjustment to the harness and wires of the safe injection unit so it connects to the Procede properly, but this is a one time thing. And once done, you can use any kit with any nozzle and the mapping will adjust accordingly Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

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    This is all bull$#@! and a front for a few people to knock on competitors. It is obvious who the people that are backing ESS are very easily. ESS has always been against meth, since they would always attack AA. That was one way for them to put down the competitor since they could not come up with anything else.

    Now what Sal and Cleveland are doing is basically knocking on Gintani because they posted good results. The argument makes no sense, Sal claiming meth WILL blow your motor and Cleveland telling everyone to shut up because only Sal can speak. I posted there about it, some of them got deleted. I find it quite objectionable that such a strong biased individual let be allowed a moderator.

    Meth will not blow your motor, it will increase octane levels. If the theory of meth is stopping the KD, then any other type of fuel will as well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks. I let the anger out yesterday slightly, and those posts were all deleted over there.
    I am surprised my post was not deleted and me getting a ban.

    Quick question if I get banned on M3forum will I also be banned in e90post as I am planning on testing out the theory of methanol interference with the ion knock control.

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