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  1. #1
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

    Bavarian Solutions and Herrubermensch's (Peter) M5 forced induction build - blown motor

    I hate to report this, because Peter has turned out to be (to me) an outstanding FI gearhead. He goes by the name of "Herrubermensch" on M5Board/BFC. He had his S62 motor built for FI by Bavarian Solutions and it was a DYI install with his friends. Cliff notes: engine blew 2x while tuning. First time B.S. manned up and rebuilt the engine. Peter flew in a world class tuner, "Mr.X" form Iceland (I think) and the engine blew again. Goes to show guys, that $#@! does happen, but it is tough when you bring in alot of peple, in other words too many cooks. If you you have one shop do everything, then they are more responsible. I know, I have been down this path before. Anyhoo, I wish Peter and Bavarian Solutions the very best. It was a epic M5 build.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    I hate to report this, because Peter has turned out to be (to me) an outstanding FI gearhead. He goes by the name of "Herrubermensch" on M5Board/BFC. He had his S62 motor built for FI by Bavarian Solutions and it was a DYI install with his friends. Cliff notes: engine blew 2x while tuning. First time B.S. manned up and rebuilt the engine. Peter flew in a world class tuner, "Mr.X" form Iceland (I think) and the engine blew again. Goes to show guys, that $#@! does happen, but it is tough when you bring in alot of peple, in other words too many cooks. If you you have one shop do everything, then they are more responsible. I know, I have been down this path before. Anyhoo, I wish Peter and Bavarian Solutions the very best. It was a epic M5 build.
    Hmm, this confuses me a bit.

    Bavarian Solutions is regarded as a top tier shop. So the hardware was likely done well and not to blame, right? The tuning was the problem?

    Mr. X is the guy everyone raves about right? So hearing he blew a motor (twice?) is a cause for concern.

    This may need its own thread.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Hmm, this confuses me a bit.

    Bavarian Solutions is regarded as a top tier shop. So the hardware was likely done well and not to blame, right? The tuning was the problem?

    Mr. X is the guy everyone raves about right? So hearing he blew a motor (twice?) is a cause for concern.

    This may need its own thread.
    No, this was the first time tune for this car, for Mr.X. He came in to clean up a situation. I would write more, but seach and yee shall find. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    No, this was the first time tune for this car, for Mr.X. He came in to clean up a situation. I would write more, but seach and yee shall find. Click here to enlarge
    Ah damn it, don't make me work. I have enough as is...

    So he cleaned it up? Who was the original tuner?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ah damn it, don't make me work. I have enough as is...

    So he cleaned it up? Who was the original tuner?
    LOL.. Here ya go Mr. Sticky: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1498401

    Also: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ild-redux.html

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    I have some reading to do.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have some reading to do.
    It was getting pretty exciting on BFC, before they just locked the thread. Very interesting debate between the OP, who is a lawyer, and the engine building shop. I would love to follow this case from a legal point of view.

    Quote from M5Board. We have 2 opposing fractions: Peter the customer, and Bavarian Solutions the engine builder, and I might add, both with great reputations:

    "Beware bavarian solutions
    Well, I've just heard from Dave Villanova of Bavarian Solutions, who informs me that everything he has done to rebuild the engine was out of courtesy and well beyond his obligations and that solely as a courtesy they will take apart the rebuilt engine and determine what went wrong, but that's it. Lawsuit to be filed asap. Showing their true stripes. Everyone beware Bavarian Solutions.

    --Peter "

    I am not anti litagation, but WTF? We need a new thread.
    Last edited by BigM62; 02-15-2011 at 02:13 AM.

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    That car needs a v7.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    It was getting pretty exciting on BFC, before they just locked the thread. Very interesting debate between the OP, who is a lawyer, and the engine building shop. I would love to follow this case from a legal point of view.

    Quote from M5Board. We have 2 opposing fractions: Peter the customer, and Bavarian Solutions the engine builder, and I might add, both with great reputations:

    "Beware bavarian solutions
    Well, I've just heard from Dave Villanova of Bavarian Solutions, who informs me that everything he has done to rebuild the engine was out of courtesy and well beyond his obligations and that solely as a courtesy they will take apart the rebuilt engine and determine what went wrong, but that's it. Lawsuit to be filed asap. Showing their true stripes. Everyone beware Bavarian Solutions.

    --Peter "

    I am not anti litagation, but WTF? We need a new thread.
    Well, we have a new thread now. Not into discussions getting locked when they are getting heated up.

    Secondly, I'm a bit concerned as I was considering having Bavarian Solutions eventually do headwork on my motor. From a hardware standpoint they have always been regarded as top notch so if the issue was with the build and not the tuning that is concerning. I'm going to study this more in depth now.
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    If you look at the pics, it looks like quality hardware work as usual from bavarian solutions:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Car is started up in this vid and you can hear the noisy clatter, which then turns into... well, watch:

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  12. #12
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    Ok, catching up on all this (a lot to read) but seems Peter is going to take them to court:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch
    Well, I've just heard from Dave Villanova of Bavarian Solutions, who informs me that everything he has done to rebuild the engine was out of courtesy and well beyond his obligations and that solely as a courtesy they will take apart the rebuilt engine and determine what went wrong, but that's it. Lawsuit to be filed asap. Showing their true stripes. Everyone beware Bavarian Solutions.

    --Peter
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  13. #13
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    Here is some insight on what happened, hardware failure seems to be to blame:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch
    ]No long explanation needed here. Mr. X began tuning and trying to obtain a baseline on the engine yesterday when we lost cylinder no 5. Subsequently, one could hear audible piston slap in bank 2, and the no. 3 knock sensor was going nuts, putting out 1.5v. Subsequent investigation of the oil filter revealed substantial chunks of aluminum throughout, and the oil was downright silver it had so much aluminum content. Most likely explanation is a chunk of piston and/or block. Anyway, the upshot is: catastrophic failure again.

    I can imagine everyone's reaction to this, so let me say in advance that I appreciate your well wishes. But pending a resolution of the legal issues, I would very much appreciate it if everyone would moderate their tone and be a little circumspect in their posts. Dave V and I are communicating, and I'm sure we will reach an appropriate resolution soon.

    I'm going to go beat up on some innocent weights in the weight room, then go have a top-flight dinner in downtown Manhattan with my gorgeous wife and try to forget about all of this, just for a while.

    Best,

    Peter
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    Wow, that sounds pretty messed up. So do we know what happened yet? Did they mess up on the assembly of the engine? Or was it faulty parts?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Car is started up in this vid and you can hear the noisy clatter, which then turns into... well, watch:

    Was that the initial start up? Sounds like they had a bad misfire...

  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Was that the initial start up? Sounds like they had a bad misfire...
    Title is initial start up so I would think so...
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    So is there any idea as to what caused the failure?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    So is there any idea as to what caused the failure?
    Well, conservation has been closed in one place so delving deeper was cut off. Peter asked for it to be closed on M5board for whatever reason so it will likely be stopped there as well.

    From what he has said, it seems he is blaming bavarian solutions. What is the actual reason for the failure? We don't know yet, but Bavarian solutions has offered to take it apart and check although at this point they will not cover it. Seems this is just getting warmed up...
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    Damn, I hope they take care of this guy. He seems like he has been through a lot with this car. I can't even imagine the amount of money he has spent on it. If it is found to be their fault, they need to fix it. I wonder what caused the failure. This is going to bother me until we find out. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    This is going to bother me until we find out.
    Same.
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    That video you posted was uploaded in 2010?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    That video you posted was uploaded in 2010?
    Yes:

    Cliff notes: engine blew 2x while tuning. First time B.S. manned up and rebuilt the engine.
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    Car sounds like it runs pretty good in this video.


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    First of all, those engine pictures are awesome. I love the resolution and quality. I have a Nikon D200 and would love to find out the lens used. Would love to see pictures like that of my aftercooler/intake manifold build. Click here to enlarge What I don't understand is why/when the M5 was being tuned, the tuning was not stopped right away after a preoblem was noticed. I am in a similar situation in that I had Rebello Racing build my engine, had A1 Imports install the engine and now RMS installing aftercooler. I have not decided exactly yet on the tuning, either Alpha-N or WAR chip. My point is, when it is not one shop that does everything from engine build to tuning, it is hard to lay blame. Is it the engine builder or the tuning? And Bavarin Solutions did offer to tear down the engine again. Why would they not be given the chance? What if , as already mentioned, if it was a failed part that the engine builder installed? Even if it is the 2nd time around for the engine, still, allow Bav. Solutions the opportunity to inspect first. I'm just sayin. And Peter says he is a Manhatten attorney. Is that any different than a Brooklyn attorney? Click here to enlarge

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    So lemme get this straight...they built it, it popped on startup and they refuse to honor the work, short of taking it apart and finding what happened?

    A litte OT but here's a story.. I had a customer with an 89 turbo 911 at my former shop. We built him a nice engine, Haltech and all, car made 600 in change on a fuel injection conversion. He had the car for about a month before he melted the #5 piston. So we took it back and rebuilt it free of charge. Then we took the car out for a test run and a tune and after 2 pulls the car blew the piston again.

    Long story short we found out the waste gate wasnt sufficient for boost control at high speeds and psi, and it was creeping to 20psi without us catching it (the dyno wouldn't show it but real world testing did oddly enough). So we rebuilt the motor again and the customer only paid for a new waste gate and some hours for tuning.

    That problem was solved and the car was gone for over a year and a half...until it came with a popped motor again.

    Turns out he had a douche bag in a Lamborghini ebbing him on, and the owner (being in his late 40s and part italian) let his temper flare and he chased down the Lambo on Ocean parkway and passed him, and continued to run the car into the 200mph range....an area of the map we did little tuning in because simply put, we didn't have the balls to risk over 180. Car went lean again, and blew the number 5.

    He brought it in expecting us to pay for it again, and wasn't pleased when he was handed a $14k repair bill.

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