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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    Going from a Cast wheel to a Billet wheel right?
    Larger wheel, and most likely Billet.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    I disagree, and I'm surprised that you would say that.

    It has over 600rwtq from 5500 to 8000 RPM, which is a pretty fat torque band. Match the gear ratios up, and you'll see that the shift points fall within this powerband for every gear. The only tough thing would be launching, but I think that's more an issue of driver skill than anything else. (Most people have no idea how to slip a clutch, I know you know what I mean)

    That said, I have known for a long time that the "bottleneck" of the HPF systems is the flow rate of the Meth system. If they could increase the meth delivery, we'd see more power above 7000 RPM in everything from Stage 2 to Stage 4 kits. The only way I can see them doing this is by adding a second Meth stage. (The pump is pretty much maxed out with what they are doing now) On race cars, I've seen an average of 13% difference in HP between race fuel and Meth....the power is in the fuel.

    Edit: The HPF kits are also probably at the limit of what a single point of meth injection can safely deliver evenly cylinder to cylinder. I think the best path of delivery for serious power would be a second fuel rail for meth and injectors mounted at the top of each runner. That's a pretty expensive project though, as the existing ECU I dont think can handle staged injection and 12 injectors. So...direct port Meth would be the more practical way to deliver the meth evenly between cylinders. Might take 2 three cylinder systems to deliver the volume for a Stage 4 car though....

    I think I may scare HPF guys a little bit with my posts...they rarely respond to any of my comments. LOL I totally respect what they are doing though.
    I never saw your response to what i said...

    I think the powerband sucks because the cars only rev to 8000...give them another 500rpm or more and youd have more to work with... its just such a fast steep increase in power... From what ive found out to be fast you need a 3k rpm power band... i calculated the shift points on an M3 i will see if i can find them again, that will show where the car will fall at every shift it the driver of the car can ninja shift Click here to enlarge....




    I think what you say to some of the HPF guys goes right over their head Click here to enlarge thats why they never respond...

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    I think the powerband sucks because the cars only rev to 8000...give them another 500rpm or more and youd have more to work with...
    The S54 already has very high piston speeds due to its long stroke. I'm impressed they rev as high as they do to begin with.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  4. #54
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    When are we going to see one of these cars do a successful 1/4 run...
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Ok here is the gear calculation.... i took the stock tire size 255/35/19 since that was all i had to go with..

    http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalc...&trannytype=27

    So lets check it out..

    1st -> 2nd shift point 4729
    2nd -> 3rd shift point 5306
    3rd -> 4th shift point 5920
    4th -> 5th Shift point 6495
    5th -> 6th shift point 6632


    This was just a close rough guess on the RPM's in the graph but:

    Click here to enlarge

    the 1->2 shift will be $#@!ty and will most likely bog, 2->3 will be kind of the same but it falls a bit higher in the power band...3->4 is much better and it gets better after that.....

    So IMO the gearing + power band for the 76mm on these cars isnt ideal... if they could rev it higher say to 8500-9000 it would help out alot..

    But im no expert...

  6. #56
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    Or if your a hpf owner like me. I don't give a $#@! what someone says on a forum

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    There has been successful 1/4 mile runs but no 10s.

  8. #58
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    The other factor for E46 M3 10 second runs is the SMG. The manual is the way to go for the strip, the SMG is a headache to launch.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  9. #59
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S38 is a whole different league, way more expensive to maintain but actually arguably a better turbo platform. More displacement, easier tuning, more options, etc.

    The problem with the S54 is there is only one option, HPF. Nothing against them, it just hurts us as costs stay up and we don't see the competition we do in the S50 sector.

    You ever post details on your S38?
    Is the s54 really cheaper than the s38?

    Nothing major about my s38. Its an original motor from my e28 m5, cat back exhaust, evo cam gear, cold air intake and chipped. I built headers but took them off because they seemed to choke the top end a little when paired with the cam gear so stock headers are on now. Never been dynoed but i waxed an old friends so called "fully built" e28 535i with 3.92 gears and m3 trans who claimed to "do circles around m5's and cruise at 185 mph"...lmao. After i wiped the street with him he decided to go turbo but never brought the car out again.

  10. #60
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Trust me I know SMG are a b1tch to launch! I have not perfected it. Either I do it perfect or spin outta control. No middle ground. Lol. Some say don't use LC and just mash the pedal. When I did that the car seemed to have a second delay the go.

    I haven't really tried it much.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    Is the s54 really cheaper than the s38?
    I would say so. Many more S54's around with many more parts available.

    Working in the S38's favor is you can find them in several cars that are not worth much today.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    Nothing major about my s38. Its an original motor from my e28 m5, cat back exhaust, evo cam gear, cold air intake and chipped. I built headers but took them off because they seemed to choke the top end a little when paired with the cam gear so stock headers are on now. Never been dynoed but i waxed an old friends so called "fully built" e28 535i with 3.92 gears and m3 trans who claimed to "do circles around m5's and cruise at 185 mph"...lmao. After i wiped the street with him he decided to go turbo but never brought the car out again.
    Cruised at 185 huh? Glad you taught him some respect.

    I understand nothing major is done to your S38, but I would still like to see it. Maybe make a thread in the 5 series section?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I would say so. Many more S54's around with many more parts available.

    Working in the S38's favor is you can find them in several cars that are not worth much today.



    Cruised at 185 huh? Glad you taught him some respect.

    I understand nothing major is done to your S38, but I would still like to see it. Maybe make a thread in the 5 series section?
    I'll post some pics in the pics thread in the 5 section.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    When are we going to see one of these cars do a successful 1/4 run...
    Honestly I think the biggest reason is most are worried about breaking something. The M3 isn't exactly the cheapest car to fix.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    1st -> 2nd shift point 4729
    2nd -> 3rd shift point 5306
    3rd -> 4th shift point 5920
    4th -> 5th Shift point 6495
    5th -> 6th shift point 6632


    This was just a close rough guess on the RPM's in the graph but:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...ftpoints-1.jpg

    the 1->2 shift will be $#@!ty and will most likely bog, 2->3 will be kind of the same but it falls a bit higher in the power band...3->4 is much better and it gets better after that.....

    So IMO the gearing + power band for the 76mm on these cars isnt ideal... if they could rev it higher say to 8500-9000 it would help out alot..

    But im no expert...
    Keep in mind it'll spool at least 500rpm sooner on the street with a 3700lb car than it does spinning a 2000lb roller... I still agree with you that the next step should be to rev to 9500+ like Supras -- people claim piston speeds are already maxed, but a 3.4L 2JZ has a longer stroke and can survive 10,000 rpm down the mile...

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Keep in mind it'll spool at least 500rpm sooner on the street with a 3700lb car than it does spinning a 2000lb roller... I still agree with you that the next step should be to rev to 9500+ like Supras -- people claim piston speeds are already maxed, but a 3.4L 2JZ has a longer stroke and can survive 10,000 rpm down the mile...
    I would like to see it revved out as well but I hope it has some stout internals for the job. Also, camwork is going to be needed at that point, probably the heads as well.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Keep in mind it'll spool at least 500rpm sooner on the street with a 3700lb car than it does spinning a 2000lb roller... I still agree with you that the next step should be to rev to 9500+ like Supras -- people claim piston speeds are already maxed, but a 3.4L 2JZ has a longer stroke and can survive 10,000 rpm down the mile...
    Yeah i did take that in mind, i was just trying to show what it would be like given the gear ratios and the dyno.....

    I know that with my car 300rpm gave me 2-3mph more trap.... revving it to 9800 instead of 9500 didnt seem like it would do much but it did...

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I would like to see it revved out as well but I hope it has some stout internals for the job. Also, camwork is going to be needed at that point, probably the heads as well.
    The motor's are built well enough i think.... only think i can think of that might need upgrading are the valve springs.... from what my friend said that works at HPF, the heads flow great....not many cars come with CNC'ed heads from the factory...

    Honda heads dont need head work to make power.... a BMW head is alot nicer than a cast alum honda head...

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Honestly I think the biggest reason is most are worried about breaking something. The M3 isn't exactly the cheapest car to fix.
    Yes i agree... but, how could one not afford to fix a couple broken parts if they just spent $15-40K+ on a turbo kit?? not being a dick just sayin

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    The motor's are built well enough i think.... only think i can think of that might need upgrading are the valve springs.... from what my friend said that works at HPF, the heads flow great....not many cars come with CNC'ed heads from the factory...

    Honda heads dont need head work to make power.... a BMW head is alot nicer than a cast alum honda head...
    Wouldn't all the modern cars heads be CNC'd? It just means a computer is feeding a machine a design. That is how all of them would be done but not to the level the S54 heads are.

    I doubt the head will be the bottle neck for the reasons you stated, incredible head. The valvetrain and cams would need to be addressed though, the heads ability to flow would be last on the list.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    Yes i agree... but, how could one not afford to fix a couple broken parts if they just spent $15-40K+ on a turbo kit?? not being a dick just sayin
    You reach a point where you just are sick of shelling out cash.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Wouldn't all the modern cars heads be CNC'd? It just means a computer is feeding a machine a design. That is how all of them would be done but not to the level the S54 heads are.

    I doubt the head will be the bottle neck for the reasons you stated, incredible head. The valvetrain and cams would need to be addressed though, the heads ability to flow would be last on the list.
    Not sure if all modern heads are CNC'd... i know my head is Cast, and does not need to be touched for it to make 850whp.. obviously it needs valve springs, some OEM cams will get you to that power level also.. my friend made 865whp on a stock GSR head/cams with valve springs with a BW s372...

    My guess would be the valve springs need attention for sure.. cam's i am not sure about, they seem to be doing ok right now, but would be nice to get some custom cams to carry the power out a bit longer....

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    cam's i am not sure about, they seem to be doing ok right now, but would be nice to get some custom cams to carry the power out a bit longer....
    Exactly, if doing it might as well maximize it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly, if doing it might as well maximize it.
    Thats where the more $$$ comes in...

    i am curious to see how CCSKYES car comes out, it has a pretty nice head setup so that may show some good or not some good things...

    I say not so good things because i have seen Custom ported CNC'd heads do worse than stock heads on a few different cars from a few different companies... the head work does wonders on a N/A car, but does not yield as much as one would think for a FI car...

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gringotegra Click here to enlarge
    Ok here is the gear calculation.... i took the stock tire size 255/35/19 since that was all i had to go with..

    http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalc...&trannytype=27

    So lets check it out..

    1st -> 2nd shift point 4729
    2nd -> 3rd shift point 5306
    3rd -> 4th shift point 5920
    4th -> 5th Shift point 6495
    5th -> 6th shift point 6632


    This was just a close rough guess on the RPM's in the graph but:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...ftpoints-1.jpg

    the 1->2 shift will be $#@!ty and will most likely bog, 2->3 will be kind of the same but it falls a bit higher in the power band...3->4 is much better and it gets better after that.....

    So IMO the gearing + power band for the 76mm on these cars isnt ideal... if they could rev it higher say to 8500-9000 it would help out alot..

    But im no expert...
    Really good post.

    I think the last time I looked at the gear ratios was for another stage, because that stage 4 powerband definitely could use another 500-1000 RPM on the drag strip.

    To get that extra RPM, I think will be expensive to do it right. Cams, springs, finger followers, more tuning time. Porting the head moves you from about 270 cfm on the intake for example, to about 290 cfm with a really well contours port. I wouldn't say porting is what's needed for that extra RPM, but it will help.

    Funny thing is, the M3 tranny doesn't really shift that well, so the gear ratios won't really matter on a true drag car. Anyone that's driven a Liberty, Gforce, or Jerico knows what I'm talking about.....and knows that a 1000+hp car is going to need thatl sooner rather than later.

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You reach a point where you just are sick of shelling out cash.
    In the racing game, $40k disapears pretty fast.

    Once you start traveling to hit tracks, or events, other costs dwarf the race car specific costs.

    I've certainly been in that frame of mind where I've been fatigued by spending money with very little return though....

    I remember a great line from a magazine writer years ago when he basically quit the racing scene. He said he was still paying credit cards for a blown engine....and not the last one that was in the car. Sometimes you've got to take a breather to let life catch back up to you.

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