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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Gixxer - don't read so much into this, life is short man lol. Go on a dynojet if you want to compare to everyone else.
    .
    Thanks Bren! I might have to take it to a dyno jet so I can sleep better at night. lol

  2. #27
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    It's all good buddy. If you're ever up in MA I can strap you into our dyno. My car read 340whp there stock exhaust best pass.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gixxer_kidd Click here to enlarge
    Now I see why having the correction factors are important.

    Seems like there are too many variables, that even the same car on the same dyno on different days would produce different numbers.

    With my number being so low, I'm afraid to find out what my numbers will be after the SC. I guess I should focus on the % change vs the absolute whp #?
    Your numbers aren't low, seriously, it's just the DD. If you go on a dynojet you will be pleasantly surprised. Nothing wrong with your car at all, the motors are all fairly close to one another. You would crack 350 on a dynojet I think.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - The only other multipler I've seen them use was pre-software, wasnt a multiplier but an old version of software. They aren't afraid of low numbers.
    I know they aren't but even my car had two sets of numbers that was a while ago though. Not sure if that was pre or post software update.

    Still, I would like to see DD operators to get in the habit of using shootout mode, or else why even have it?
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  5. #30
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    Shootout mode would probably read in the 275 range on a dd. Super low

    BG

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Shootout mode would probably read in the 275 range on a dd. Super low

    BG
    Yep, likely lower but would eliminate a lot of guessing and level the "correction factor" field.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Shootout mode would probably read in the 275 range on a dd. Super low

    BG
    Why would shootout mode make it read less?

    Since when does a Dyno Dynamics read low?

    We seem to get an average of around 335 RWHP which is very much inline with dynojet's. So do the rest of the other tuners around the world except a few.

    It's all got to do with the tension on the straps........ probably the single most annoying thing about the DD and the one thing the operators use to manipulate when they know they are going to be asked for the correction factors.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Why would shootout mode make it read less?

    Since when does a Dyno Dynamics read low?
    Every dyno dynamics we have seen reads much lower than a dynojet when not messed with?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    We seem to get an average of around 335 RWHP which is very much inline with dynojet's. So do the rest of the other tuners around the world except a few.
    Your dyno dynamics reads much higher than Gintan's or RPI's for example. Also higher than this one, so it would seem most read lower?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    It's all got to do with the tension on the straps........ probably the single most annoying thing about the DD and the one thing the operators use to manipulate when they know they are going to be asked for the correction factors.
    If the straps make it easy to manipulate the DD sounds pretty fishy. Why don't dynojets have these problems?
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I know they aren't but even my car had two sets of numbers that was a while ago though. Not sure if that was pre or post software update.

    Still, I would like to see DD operators to get in the habit of using shootout mode, or else why even have it?
    Shootout mode.....

    Wow, someone is pushing for it to be used. I am not alone!

    They don't use it because it would set the ramp rate the same, it would make the correction factors appear and the dyno would actually be used correctly with some consistency added to the mix. They wouldn't want that would they now!

    I think it's best people stick to dynojet's because it's a simple fact that the Dyno Dynamics is so badly abused.

    Oh, and you can change the correction factors in shootout mode also. On the earlier versions the operator puts them in manually, on the later version there is a inbuilt weather station but you can over ride it.

    You can put in a correction factor of 1.00 for one set of runs and then for the second set you can put in 1.05. So there would be a phase shift in the graph of exactly 5%. If a car made say 335hp with CR=1, it would make 351hp with CR=1.05

    +16hp.... that's a remap..... give us your money!!

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    They don't use it because it would set the ramp rate the same, it would make the correction factors appear and the dyno would actually be used correctly with some consistency added to the mix. They wouldn't want that would they now!
    Maybe they wouldn't but I want it and as does everyone else. The dyno dynamics just read all over the place and shootout mode was put in to prevent it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    I think it's best people stick to dynojet's because it's a simple fact that the Dyno Dynamics is so badly abused.
    I could not agree more.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Oh, and you can change the correction factors in shootout mode also. On the earlier versions the operator puts them in manually, on the later version there is a inbuilt weather station but you can over ride it.

    You can put in a correction factor of 1.00 for one set of runs and then for the second set you can put in 1.05. So there would be a phase shift in the graph of exactly 5%. If a car made say 335hp with CR=1, it would make 351hp with CR=1.05
    But you would be able to see the correction factors, correct? So if this change was made one would be able to see the manipulation?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    +16hp.... that's a remap..... give us your money!!
    Heh, exactly.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Every dyno dynamics we have seen reads much lower than a dynojet when not messed with?

    When not messd with? Please explain. What do they mess with?

    Your dyno dynamics reads much higher than Gintan's or RPI's for example. Also higher than this one, so it would seem most read lower?

    Really? We read real close to loads of other dyno's with the same cars. Are they testing in shootout mode? What are their ramp rates? Are they placing the inlet temperature probe in the inlet system or leaving it out? What are they setting their correction factors to?
    Are they strapping the cars down too hard?


    If the straps make it easy to manipulate the DD sounds pretty fishy. Why don't dynojets have these problems?
    Because the car sits ontop of the roller on a dynojet and there is no 'climbing' effect like on a dyno dynamics' front roller.
    If the car is strapped hard the wheel has contact with both the front roller (the one that reads) and the rear stabalising roller. Strap the car loose and the car will climb the front roller and leave the rear one which will reduce the frictional losses = higher HP reading.
    Want me to demonstrate with a video?

  12. #37
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    You cannot see the correction factors unless they are displayed. You cannot even tell if the same gear was used.

    Infact, you can't tell anything!!

    Strangely.... no one gives you any information no matter how hard you ask.

    This is what I love about dynojet and their Winpep software.

    You can tell what gear was used because you can bring up road speed. You can see the correction factor.

    Infact.... I might just buy one.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    When not messd with? Please explain. What do they mess with?
    Exactly what you stated, the correction factors and even the straps apparently.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Really? We read real close to loads of other dyno's with the same cars. Are they testing in shootout mode? What are their ramp rates? Are they placing the inlet temperature probe in the inlet system or leaving it out? What are they setting their correction factors to?
    Are they strapping the cars down too hard?
    I'm going by the numbers you have shown for the S85 for example. They are much higher than RPI's or Gintani's. I see more dyno dynamics reading lower than higher. To read like a dynojet they need to be corrected heavily like AutoWave does who openly states they correct it by 20% to read like a dynojet. Why would they do that if a properly set dyno dynamics reads close?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Because the car sits ontop of the roller on a dynojet and there is no 'climbing' effect like on a dyno dynamics' front roller.
    If the car is strapped hard the wheel has contact with both the front roller (the one that reads) and the rear stabalising roller. Strap the car loose and the car will climb the front roller and leave the rear one which will reduce the frictional losses = higher HP reading.
    Want me to demonstrate with a video?
    As a guest vendor you can not post videos but we can work something out since this is important. If you want to create a video on the subject by all means do so and e-mail me the link: administrator@bimmerboost.com and if it is well done and educational I will put it up on the front page.
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    You cannot see the correction factors unless they are displayed. You cannot even tell if the same gear was used.

    Infact, you can't tell anything!!

    Strangely.... no one gives you any information no matter how hard you ask.

    This is what I love about dynojet and their Winpep software.

    You can tell what gear was used because you can bring up road speed. You can see the correction factor.

    Infact.... I might just buy one.
    Why did you get a dyno dynamics then to begin with?

    I could not agree more with your line of thinking, nothing frustrates me more than dyno dynamics dynos and trying to figure out the correction factors or whatever else might be going on.

    I thought shootout mode was designed to resolve this issue but I guess not.
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    The dyno has an excellent retarder which allowed us to do alot of steady state calibration on race cars with aftermarket ECU's.

    It is a good machine if used properly but we were not aware it was so badly abused when we purchased it.

    The one thing that is there is the fact that everything is recorded and if the information is given up everyone gets caught. Alot of people get caught!

    Shoot out mode would help matter alot because atleast the CF's are being displayed and all someone has to do is go online and check what the weather was at the nearest airport (if applicable) or nearest weather station. You KNOW when someone has cheated!

    Strapping differences can also be caught out. Takes a keep eye though.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    The dyno has an excellent retarder which allowed us to do alot of steady state calibration on race cars with aftermarket ECU's.
    Yes, I hear for tuning purposes it is one of the best for exactly what you mention.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    It is a good machine if used properly but we were not aware it was so badly abused when we purchased it.
    This is the problem. The numbers being all over the place likely confuse customers as well so I understand why people use heavy multipliers when a guy will see dynojet numbers and then think there is something wrong with his or the parts since the dyno dynamics reads differently. Then trying to explain that is a nightmare and well... you understand.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Shoot out mode would help matter alot because atleast the CF's are being displayed and all someone has to do is go online and check what the weather was at the nearest airport (if applicable) or nearest weather station. You KNOW when someone has cheated!
    Shootout mode would help which is why I am clamoring for it but it is a lost cause. I think a video on this topic would be incredibly useful though Click here to enlarge
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    Will get a video done and send it over to you.

    Numbers will be all over the place outside of shoot out mode and if correction factors are being set or cars being strapped. I have had conversations with some of the mentioned vendors and they do strap down real hard.

    If I strap down an M3 real hard my figures are very much like that of Gintani.

    Autowave...... I have seen dyno graphs from there including 500WHP E39 M5's which have basic upgrades. They really do add 20%! It doesn't really matter as long as they are consistent.

    You know..... dyno's are just abused. Full Stop. It's happening too much now. Needs to stop.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Autowave...... I have seen dyno graphs from there including 500WHP E39 M5's which have basic upgrades. They really do add 20%! It doesn't really matter as long as they are consistent.
    Exactly, it doesn't matter to me as long as this is disclosed. It is a tuning tool after all. However, try explaining this to the guy who gets 390 whp on a dyno dynamics and his "friend" gets 500 whp and now he thinks his car is weaker. This type of nonsense happens all the time.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    You know..... dyno's are just abused. Full Stop. It's happening too much now. Needs to stop.
    Hey, this is why we value 1/4 mile and 60-130 figures above all else. That is what real enthusiasts value and you aren't going to manipulate the drag strip.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Will get a video done and send it over to you.
    Thank you, this will be much appreciated.
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    We don't have this problem in the UK.

    There is some good consistency over here between dyno's. Only if the weather conditions are quite different do the numbers vary because correction factors can only do som much with their 'assumptions'.

    It's easy to get everyone to use the dyno in the same way. You know how powerful the forums can be..... just write an article and everyone will suddenly get into shape.

    'dyno graphs published without correction factors should be considered scrap'

    Standardise the gears used for M3's on different dyno's. Standardise whether or not the cars should or should not climb the front roller to eradicate strap tension issues.

    You can get rid of the confusion.... it's easy. You'll go down in history for it and alot of tuners will pay you alot of respect (if that means anything to you). You have the power to do it.

    We don't have this problem with E39 M5's for example accross the world even on different brand dyno's!

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    weather conditions change 1/4 mile times.....

    Unless of course you take a control car everytime which standardises everything.

    Best test for the road are in gear which removes lanuch variation + a standard control car everytime. Best way to measure performance.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    You can get rid of the confusion.... it's easy. You'll go down in history for it and alot of tuners will pay you alot of respect (if that means anything to you). You have the power to do it.
    I have been planning to do a dyno comparison article for some time the problem is my car isn't finished.
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    weather conditions change 1/4 mile times.....
    Of course, but we understand why they do. We also have a history of results that have produced correction factors so we can all understand why they are different.

    The thing, I can't suddenly dial up different weather conditions on my keyboard. I can't suddenly make timeslips 20% faster with a keystroke.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Best test for the road are in gear which removes lanuch variation + a standard control car everytime. Best way to measure performance.
    This is still susceptible to traction (although to a lesser extent) as well as weather conditions. There is no standard for correction though as provided by the NHRA. Also, the drag strip provides ET and trap speed which do more than just having elapsed time as in gear tests IMO. Difficult to extract hp from just roll on testing vs. the strip which almost works just like a dyno.
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    I know dynojet has become the standard in the US and its consistency is definitely an advantage. Unfortunately the power figure it spits out is not based on science -- it is based on a legacy of fudge-factoring dating to the founder's belief that a 145hp 1985 Yamaha motorcycle should make 120rwhp: http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/1..._creation.html

    Physics calculations from vbox data indicates that the modern dynojet reads ~12% high -- something tuners down under have been saying for years...

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    I know dynojet has become the standard in the US and its consistency is definitely an advantage. Unfortunately the power figure it spits out is not based on science -- it is based on a legacy of fudge-factoring dating to the founder's belief that a 145hp 1985 Yamaha motorcycle should make 120rwhp: http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/1..._creation.html

    Physics calculations from vbox data indicates that the modern dynojet reads ~12% high -- something tuners down under have been saying for years...
    I think this is true and you have posted this link before but even if they do read high, their consistency works well.

    If they do read thigh though, why is it dynojet readings almost always correlate to the accepted 15% drivetrain loss figures for manuals for example?
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    Sal, nice to see you over here as well. A video would be great for people like me with little brains ;-)

    Also while we're on the topic of weather stations and correction factors. The day I had the car dynoed, outside ambient temp was around 32-33F. However, we dynoed inside their heated garage where the temp was much higher. I'm not sure how weather stations work, but if I used a handheld like a kessler and took a reading inside their shop vs outside, would the readings be different?

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