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View Poll Results: Turbo or Super Charge M54??

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  • Turbo

    10 83.33%
  • Super Charge

    2 16.67%
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  1. #1
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    Turbo BOOST or Super CHARGER

    I think this is the correct forum to ask this question,

    I have been looking for a built M54 turbo THREAD but couldn't find it only one (bluejeansonfire) in this forum or other forum.

    I own E39 M54B25 w/ Automatic steptronic tranny, i want more power for it, looking for around 280-320hp

    Turbo
    what should i do with the engine and ECU if i want to go with turbo?
    is these kind of turbo list enough?

    Garret gt35r Turbocharger
    Turbo Manifold
    T3 Turbo Inlet
    Front Mount Intercooler
    Intercooler Piping kit
    Electric Slim Fan
    Blade: 10" x 10"x 1.5" 1720 cfm /ea., 12v, 80w
    External Wastegate
    8 psi Spring Setting
    Fuel Pressure Regulator
    High Quality Fitting Boost 15-75 psi or more
    Voltage Stabilizer
    Ignition Flow to Strengthen Starting Power
    Turbo Timer
    Blow-off Valve
    Bov Flange Pipe
    Boost Controller
    Manual Boost Control 0-30 psi Adjustment
    Oil Cooler & line kit
    37",47",62" Oil Cooler Line 7/8" Outside Diamater Hoses
    Oil Feed Line
    Oil Return Drain Line
    Oil Catch Tank
    Gauges
    Flexible Transfer Hose
    Braided Hose Kits


    or there are more to do and to get than just this list??


    Supercharge

    E46 330ci supercharger

    i read that thread and is it more easier to supercharge the M54?

    AA uses a centrifugal and ESS uses a twin screw and from what i get centrifugal gives more longevity for the engine but twin screw gives more power instantly, am i correct?



    I'm looking for more longevity and daily driven mods which one should i choose??

  2. #2
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    With an automatic I recommend a supercharger unless you beef up the transmission.

    It is easier to supercharger but if you would be willing to address the transmission I would go with a turbo all the way. That, or a positive displacement supercharger but both of these options create a lot of torque. You will get more enjoyment out of the turbo and twin screw than AA's centrifugal kit although the centrifugal will be the easiest on the motor and the transmission.

    If longevity is your concern, AA all the way. If you are willing to do supplemental mods and are trying to get power, I say turbo.

    Twin screw does give power instantly and is A LOT of fun.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #3
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    Well first thing, any GT35r turbo is WAY too big for 320hp, even 320WHP. It will be laggy and you won't really be able to use the full potential of that turbo.

    The centrifugal will be the easiest to install and setup.

    Are you staying stock internals?

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    If your plan on going turbo a 35r is WAY too big for that motor.

    I would get something like a 30r. Maybe a 3076 or check out the Precision 5857 Turbo
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  5. #5
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    I was thinking a 3076. Would spool quick and easily hit 320WHP. Get it twin-scroll. They are pretty cheap too.

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    I haven't plan anything yet with the internal,
    if i go turbo which internal of the engine that I need to change and what should i do with the ECU?
    and if i go SC which internal of the engine that I need to change, and what to do with the ECU?

    it seems that AA's SC is the most safe and less mods in the engine internal too


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Get it twin-scroll. They are pretty cheap too.
    do you mean SuperCharfe twin-scroll? how much and who's make the cheap kit?

  7. #7
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    I haven't plan anything yet with the internal,
    if i go turbo which internal of the engine that I need to change and what should i do with the ECU?
    and if i go SC which internal of the engine that I need to change, and what to do with the ECU?

    it seems that AA's SC is the most safe and less mods in the engine internal too




    do you mean SuperCharfe twin-scroll? how much and who's make the cheap kit?
    Do engine internals later if you feel you need more power.

    Internals refers to pistsons and rods, these you would need to change. Same for both turbo or SC.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    sounds like you need a 335 lol.... i mean a custom fabricated turbo kit $$$$$, if there are bolt on sc kits its a no brainer, your not building a race car or anything like that so building the motor and building the tranny seems like a complete overkill and fortune for the use you discribed(daily driver that i want more power) not i wanna kill the z06 on the hwy and i need to get into the 10's

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    yea a 35R is OVERKILL!! i run a 3076R and im making over 500hp at the wheels, so i would say go with something evene smaller like a 2871R (disco potato) thatll easily hit your power goals and spool faster.. you want to match your turbo for the amount of power you want to make/what you use the car for. And all the people saying turbos dont have instant torque like a supercharger, etc. have never driven an automatic turbo'd setup. Breakboost off the line and youll have full boost from the get go, no launch control needed, no stall converter, nothing.. Turbo work great in autos because they always have load on them so they stay spooled. If you have the money youll be much happier with a turbo setup, but if youre bargaining it like it sounds, SC it..

  10. #10
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    Id just strap a blower to it.

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    thanks guys for all the advice, i thing GT2871R is enough like Stimo said, and for the customs fabrication what kind of customs fabrication do we talking about??

    pipping? i can do the customs fabrication of the pipping
    exhaust manifold? can i use M54 Z3 turbo manifold??
    do i need to make a customs/buying after market intake manifold?? or i can use the oem?

    seriously i don't know what kind of customs works that i need to do if i want to go turbo?
    and what should i do with the ECU after plug all the turbo kit??

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    sounds like you need a 335 lol.... i mean a custom fabricated turbo kit $$$$$, if there are bolt on sc kits its a no brainer, your not building a race car or anything like that so building the motor and building the tranny seems like a complete overkill and fortune for the use you discribed(daily driver that i want more power) not i wanna kill the z06 on the hwy and i need to get into the 10's
    There are turbo kits for the M54 available though such as technique tuning: http://www.techniquetuning.com/
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    thanks guys for all the advice, i thing GT2871R is enough like Stimo said, and for the customs fabrication what kind of customs fabrication do we talking about??

    pipping? i can do the customs fabrication of the pipping
    exhaust manifold? can i use M54 Z3 turbo manifold??
    do i need to make a customs/buying after market intake manifold?? or i can use the oem?

    seriously i don't know what kind of customs works that i need to do if i want to go turbo?
    and what should i do with the ECU after plug all the turbo kit??
    I think you might want to go with something tried and true and then modify it as you need.

    You will be limited by your internals anyway at this point. Only way you should go custom is if you build the motor.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    yea a 35R is OVERKILL!! i run a 3076R and im making over 500hp at the wheels, so i would say go with something evene smaller like a 2871R (disco potato) thatll easily hit your power goals and spool faster.. you want to match your turbo for the amount of power you want to make/what you use the car for. And all the people saying turbos dont have instant torque like a supercharger, etc. have never driven an automatic turbo'd setup. Breakboost off the line and youll have full boost from the get go, no launch control needed, no stall converter, nothing.. Turbo work great in autos because they always have load on them so they stay spooled. If you have the money youll be much happier with a turbo setup, but if youre bargaining it like it sounds, SC it..
    Yes, but even in an auto brake boosting off the line it won't match the response of a positive displacement blower. This will be most noticeable when moving and around 2000-2500 rpm. Turbo lag is a reality, brake boosting mitigates it off the line, but it doesn't eliminate it.

    Keep in mind, he can only go to 400 whp right now anyway.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    yea a 35R is OVERKILL!! i run a 3076R and im making over 500hp at the wheels, so i would say go with something evene smaller like a 2871R (disco potato) thatll easily hit your power goals and spool faster.. you want to match your turbo for the amount of power you want to make/what you use the car for. And all the people saying turbos dont have instant torque like a supercharger, etc. have never driven an automatic turbo'd setup. Breakboost off the line and youll have full boost from the get go, no launch control needed, no stall converter, nothing.. Turbo work great in autos because they always have load on them so they stay spooled. If you have the money youll be much happier with a turbo setup, but if youre bargaining it like it sounds, SC it..
    I just would hate to see him max out that 2871 early on. Maybe a 3071? Then he would have room left if he did meth injection/internals or whatever. Isn't the 3071 a new type compressor wheel (more efficient) than the 2871?

    I just remember seeing disco potatoes a long time ago, and someone talking about another Garrett turbo that spooled just as quick but had greater flow capacity.

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    TT M54B30 ZHP Steptronic Turbocharger System they are using Garrett T3/T4, are they different.. *noob question*

    i saw other turbo built thread from other forum they did turbo a E46 330 steptronic transmission, and they did great.. it seems i can do this turbo built, but my biggest concern are the OBDII ECU what can i do with it?? i'm from south east asia very far from CONUS and i don't know who can tune my ECU here..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    TT M54B30 ZHP Steptronic Turbocharger System they are using Garrett T3/T4, are they different.. *noob question*

    i saw other turbo built thread from other forum they did turbo a E46 330 steptronic transmission, and they did great.. it seems i can do this turbo built, but my biggest concern are the OBDII ECU what can i do with it?? i'm from south east asia very far from CONUS and i don't know who can tune my ECU here..
    I would say you go with a tuning solution where you don't have to worry. Active Autowerke can remote tune your ECU. I believe Technique Tuning could do the same.

    The AA kit does come with a tune. I don't think it is a custom tune, but canned.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    TT M54B30 ZHP Steptronic Turbocharger System they are using Garrett T3/T4, are they different.. *noob question*

    i saw other turbo built thread from other forum they did turbo a E46 330 steptronic transmission, and they did great.. it seems i can do this turbo built, but my biggest concern are the OBDII ECU what can i do with it?? i'm from south east asia very far from CONUS and i don't know who can tune my ECU here..
    It's cheap, but I don't like the turbo, and the exhaust manifold looks pretty bad. T3 and T4, are two different turbo flanges, T4 being the bigger one. I think they are talking about a T03/T04 hybrid turbo though. You want to match your turbo to your turbo flange. I would not use that hybrid turbo, I'd rather use a newer design like the 3071.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you might want to go with something tried and true and then modify it as you need.

    You will be limited by your internals anyway at this point. Only way you should go custom is if you build the motor.
    I agree with this post to a point. If hes gonna keep the power levels within reason for this specific motor (dont know what this motor is known to handle powerwise) and low 3xx is your goal, then i dont see a problem going with a custom setup like the OP is thinking, it will cost more for the same amount of HP he could have with an off the shelf kit, but it will be custom, and to alot of people thats important, to some its retarded, i see the points to both sides and personally i go with something that is tried and true, i dont like being a guinea pig. However if people have ran setups like this before and you're just doing a custom setup, my all means go for it if you can fab everything up yourself.. The 2871R and the 3071R are both great turbos, and yes the 3071R would leave a little headroom which i do recommend because lag is WAY overrated! Especially in an automatic, you have FULL BOOST off the line and youll never NOT have full boost if you want to break boost it. However if you are going from a roll you will need to be at the correct rpm for the turbo to spool or you will have turbo lag. What RPM that lag starts at depends on the size of turbo, smaller the turbo the lower the RPM it will be at full boost and have less lag, but wont make as much power up top. To the OP: Do what you want to do, but if you're just trying to have some fun and make more power get a proven setup that numerous people run, itll be alot easier in the long run with way less maintenance. A custom setup requires you to check under the hood daily. Trust me i know Click here to enlarge however i do enjoy every second of driving my car, cant deny that!

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    alright i will look forward for 3071, do you guys know where i can source the turbo manifold from?? or it has to be customs fab??

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    I agree with this post to a point. If hes gonna keep the power levels within reason for this specific motor (dont know what this motor is known to handle powerwise) and low 3xx is your goal, then i dont see a problem going with a custom setup like the OP is thinking, it will cost more for the same amount of HP he could have with an off the shelf kit, but it will be custom, and to alot of people thats important, to some its retarded, i see the points to both sides and personally i go with something that is tried and true, i dont like being a guinea pig. However if people have ran setups like this before and you're just doing a custom setup, my all means go for it if you can fab everything up yourself.. The 2871R and the 3071R are both great turbos, and yes the 3071R would leave a little headroom which i do recommend because lag is WAY overrated! Especially in an automatic, you have FULL BOOST off the line and youll never NOT have full boost if you want to break boost it. However if you are going from a roll you will need to be at the correct rpm for the turbo to spool or you will have turbo lag. What RPM that lag starts at depends on the size of turbo, smaller the turbo the lower the RPM it will be at full boost and have less lag, but wont make as much power up top. To the OP: Do what you want to do, but if you're just trying to have some fun and make more power get a proven setup that numerous people run, itll be alot easier in the long run with way less maintenance. A custom setup requires you to check under the hood daily. Trust me i know Click here to enlarge however i do enjoy every second of driving my car, cant deny that!
    Guy is located in Asia and doesn't have a bunch of BMW tuners to choose from. The best choice is a kit and the stock internals won't go beyond 400 whp which is really pushing it on a step (auto) anyway. He will likely be in the low 300's with an SC which is fine at reasonable boost.

    Turbo or SC doesn't really even matter as it is a moot point on stock internals which are the limitation. Both can hit the same power level. On a built motor, the turbo would offer more power but on the stock setup with the stock trans a twin screw will be a lot of fun and provide much better power delivery. Instant torque and a flat curve feels very nice. It depends what one wants, the centrifugal is going to have the peakiest power delivery of the bunch which is the kit Active Autowerke produces.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    alright i will look forward for 3071, do you guys know where i can source the turbo manifold from?? or it has to be customs fab??
    Are you really considering going custom? Who is going to do your tune?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, but even in an auto brake boosting off the line it won't match the response of a positive displacement blower. This will be most noticeable when moving and around 2000-2500 rpm. Turbo lag is a reality, brake boosting mitigates it off the line, but it doesn't eliminate it.

    Keep in mind, he can only go to 400 whp right now anyway.
    Yes, actually it will, you will have full boost off the line with an automatic/turbo setup because brake boosting creates load, which in turn spools the turbo. If you're sitting at the line floored with the brakes all the way down, you're going to be creating more load than the car sees normally and in turn will spool the turbo. In manuals you have to either use an igniton/fuel cut to build pressure at a stand still and create load, and one is bad for the turbo the other is bad for the motor, or you have to blip the throttle at the RPM your specific turbo creates boost at and do it as fast as possible. Using ignition/fuel cut just cuts out the spark/fuel for one revolution of the motor, and the next revolution it either sparks/sprays fuel. The ignition cut lets raw fuel get into the header and gets ignited the second revolution, creating a fireball and generating load, this is why you'll see manual trans turbo cars at the drag strip like supras spitting out flames like crazy before they take off;it what they have to do to build boost but ignition cut is hard on the turbo, it has raw flames/fuel getting all over the hotside wheel of the turbo and it wears them down fast. fuel cut does the same thing basically except it cuts out fuel for one revolution, and gets to motor to run lean to create a little bit of load (not nearly as much as ignition cut) on the motor. It does however rotate cylinders on most fuel cut launch controls so that the damage to motor is very very minimal, basically it pumps air into one cylinder per cycle i believe and cuts the fuel on that cylinder, then rotates to the next one on the next revolution. Dont quote me on that but i believe thats how fuel cut works.
    After knowing that he can go to 400whp, depending on what he wants the car for/power goals, i would recommend a 3071R instead. On race gas that turbo would about max out your setup if 400whp is indeed the limit. However if you want more response and are going to use it for something like tracking or autocross and dont want all that power/ then the disco potato it is (2871R). But remember, if the OP wants something that is simple and just wants more power with limited maintenance, then a more widely used setup like ones mentioned (supercharger kits) would be the way to go. If i had to choose i would still do the turbo setup, i just like turbos better, they make power off of used exhaust gas instead of robbing power from the motor by adding another belt drive and creating more inertia on the motor to make more power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Guy is located in Asia and doesn't have a bunch of BMW tuners to choose from. The best choice is a kit and the stock internals won't go beyond 400 whp which is really pushing it on a step (auto) anyway. He will likely be in the low 300's with an SC which is fine at reasonable boost.

    Turbo or SC doesn't really even matter as it is a moot point on stock internals which are the limitation. Both can hit the same power level. On a built motor, the turbo would offer more power but on the stock setup with the stock trans a twin screw will be a lot of fun and provide much better power delivery. Instant torque and a flat curve feels very nice. It depends what one wants, the centrifugal is going to have the peakiest power delivery of the bunch which is the kit Active Autowerke produces.
    agreed, if OP doesnt have tuners readily available then a turbo setup is going to be complicated.. you'll either have to fly a tuner in to do it, or you'll have to trailer it to the tuner after its built unless he can create some sort of base map just to get you there. Or you would have to send logs of pulls on the street back and forth with a tuner for him to tune a turbo setup such as one the OP is talking about. In this case i would definately go with the more widely available and proven setup.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    Yes, actually it will, you will have full boost off the line with an automatic/turbo setup because brake boosting creates load, which in turn spools the turbo. If you're sitting at the line floored with the brakes all the way down, you're going to be creating more load than the car sees normally and in turn will spool the turbo. In manuals you have to either use an igniton/fuel cut to build pressure at a stand still and create load, and one is bad for the turbo the other is bad for the motor, or you have to blip the throttle at the RPM your specific turbo creates boost at and do it as fast as possible. Using ignition/fuel cut just cuts out the spark/fuel for one revolution of the motor, and the next revolution it either sparks/sprays fuel. The ignition cut lets raw fuel get into the header and gets ignited the second revolution, creating a fireball and generating load, this is why you'll see manual trans turbo cars at the drag strip like supras spitting out flames like crazy before they take off;it what they have to do to build boost but ignition cut is hard on the turbo, it has raw flames/fuel getting all over the hotside wheel of the turbo and it wears them down fast. fuel cut does the same thing basically except it cuts out fuel for one revolution, and gets to motor to run lean to create a little bit of load (not nearly as much as ignition cut) on the motor. It does however rotate cylinders on most fuel cut launch controls so that the damage to motor is very very minimal, basically it pumps air into one cylinder per cycle i believe and cuts the fuel on that cylinder, then rotates to the next one on the next revolution. Dont quote me on that but i believe thats how fuel cut works.
    After knowing that he can go to 400whp, depending on what he wants the car for/power goals, i would recommend a 3071R instead. On race gas that turbo would about max out your setup if 400whp is indeed the limit. However if you want more response and are going to use it for something like tracking or autocross and dont want all that power/ then the disco potato it is (2871R). But remember, if the OP wants something that is simple and just wants more power with limited maintenance, then a more widely used setup like ones mentioned (supercharger kits) would be the way to go. If i had to choose i would still do the turbo setup, i just like turbos better, they make power off of used exhaust gas instead of robbing power from the motor by adding another belt drive and creating more inertia on the motor to make more power.
    You need to use paragraphs Click here to enlarge

    No, it will not match the response of a positive displacement blower. All you are doing with brake boosting is mitigating the turbo lag, it still exists. And I doubt he is going to be brake boosting everywhere he goes. There is no getting around it, a turbo needs to build boost. A positive displacement blower is always making boost. It is an impossibility to match the throttle response as well as curve of that style of blower with a turbo. A turbo can make more power and be more efficient, sure, but it is a different style of power delivery. For a street car, a twin screw is a lot of fun at all RPM ranges.

    The motor can handle 400 whp or so but the transmission can't. If he had a manual it would be a different story.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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