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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yep, but that is thanks to the AWD and DCT.

    It isn't some ridiculously power monster, far from it.
    Sticky i always enjoy reading your posts and your opinions but this is the second time we have had a little gtr debate and obviously you dont like or not impressed by the car but it is ridiculous to debate FACTS, if you wanna say a gtr is ugly then fine because thats an opinion, even if you want to say the car is numb and not a thrill to drive i can understand that as well but performance is FACT!!! and with that there is no debate, the trap speed argument is lame because trap speed mainly reflects hp(i know weight,gearing,etc play a part), based on your argument you would be impressed by a car that runs 13's all day but traps at 130. How can you disregard the most important thing in a 1/4 mile witch is the time it takes to cross the line!!, what if it was a drag race and the car in 2nd was gaining would you say "dude i almost caught up" come on sticky 11.60's for a 3900lb car is blistering fast, correction for any car. Then you say well its only that fast because its awd, well so is an r8 or 997tt or a gallardo and none of them put up those numbers with similar hp and less weight . Every manufacture has the opportunity to build there car awd and dct and if thats all it took everyone would do it. When i said porsches i meant all the ones it was tested against but since you picked the mighty carrera gt(my all time dream car) lets go to the tail of the tape
    Gtr Carrera Gt
    Price:85,476- 448,400
    Weight:3908- 3146
    hp: 485-- 605
    tq : 430- 435
    eng: 3.8lttV6- 5.7l V10
    0-60: 3.4-- 3.5
    1/4:11.5@124 11.2@132
    70-0: 145------145
    Ring time: 7:26.70--7:28.71

    guys this is a prime example of how incredible this car is and an example of its level of engineering, you give up 350,000 in the price, 750lb in weight, and a 120hp and what do you get? slower 0-60, .3 quicker 1/4, same braking performance, and a slower ring time!! Now the gt will kill the gtr in top speed, trap speed, and those top end comparisons. these results will be the same with pretty much every lambo, most ferraris, and many other exotics.
    When we look at all these different performance numbers one can argue witch ones are most important but imo lap times marry together all the different aspects of performance and givies you one net result for comparison. in the hands of professional drivers the gtr has defeated most challangers giving up price,weight/hp when driven back to back and if im wrong show me the comparison from a reliable media source and i will show you 10 that say different!!!!

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    Sticky i always enjoy reading your posts and your opinions but this is the second time we have had a little gtr debate and obviously you dont like or not impressed by the car but it is ridiculous to debate FACTS, if you wanna say a gtr is ugly then fine because thats an opinion, even if you want to say the car is numb and not a thrill to drive i can understand that as well but performance is FACT!!!
    Yep, facts, the fact is people see it trap118-119 in the real world, not on magazine pages. So... why are you ignoring this fact?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    the trap speed argument is lame because trap speed mainly reflects hp
    Exactly, not lame at all, that is exactly what is being discussed, HP. As in, the car isn't really all that fast stock as it has been made out to be as you can see by the trap speeds.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    based on your argument you would be impressed by a car that runs 13's all day but traps at 130.
    Haha, yep, I have one.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    well so is an r8 or 997tt or a gallardo and none of them put up those numbers with similar hp and less weight .
    I said because it is AWD and DCT. Look at the 997.2 turbo, 10.8 stock due to AWD and DCT with similar HP. Isn't that far more impressive than the GTR?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    guys this is a prime example of how incredible this car is and an example of its level of engineering, you give up 350,000 in the price, 750lb in weight, and a 120hp and what do you get? slower 0-60, .3 quicker 1/4, same braking performance, and a slower ring time!! Now the gt will kill the gtr in top speed, trap speed, and those top end comparisons. these results will be the same with pretty much every lambo, most ferraris, and many other exotics.
    Are you seriously comparing it to the Carrera GT? That is insane, it doesn't belong in the same sentence. It isn't a supercar, it is a car that traps just about 120 mph and handles well for a numb boat.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    When we look at all these different performance numbers one can argue witch ones are most important but imo lap times marry together all the different aspects of performance and givies you one net result for comparison.
    I agree, lap times are the most important but we were talking straight line speed stock, which, once again, the GTR isn't that big deal of a deal straightline stock. No one is saying it doesn't handle well or isn't a nice platform.
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  3. #28
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    autocar gtr vs r8v10 vs 997tt

    look at best motoring it beats the 997 gt3 and the turbo by 3 sec!!!

    evo magazine
    gtr vs gt3

  4. #29
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    Best Motoring is some of the best Japanese propaganda I have ever seen. I'm surprised they aren't still showing the ancient NSX topping new Ferrari's. They haven't shown the GTR taking down a Veyron yet?

    Look, the GTR is a great car, handles well, nice mod platform. All that was said is it is not all the fast in stock form. When we are saying "fast" we are referring to the trap speed specifically. Yes, it is quite quick off the line thanks to AWD and the DCT.
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  5. #30
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    Originally Posted by MSIZZLE
    Sticky i always enjoy reading your posts and your opinions but this is the second time we have had a little gtr debate and obviously you dont like or not impressed by the car but it is ridiculous to debate FACTS, if you wanna say a gtr is ugly then fine because thats an opinion, even if you want to say the car is numb and not a thrill to drive i can understand that as well but performance is FACT!!!
    Yep, facts, the fact is people see it trap118-119 in the real world, not on magazine pages. So... why are you ignoring this fact?

    Originally Posted by MSIZZLE
    the trap speed argument is lame because trap speed mainly reflects hp
    Exactly, not lame at all, that is exactly what is being discussed, HP. As in, the car isn't really all that fast stock as it has been made out to be as you can see by the trap speeds.

    when did i say it traps more that 119?
    what does fast mean to you?
    the car is heavy but isnt the fact that it put up these numbers north of 3900lb make it more impressive not less?? its that weight because of what they try and give you at that price point, you dont think that nissan knows that carbon fiber weighs less?? just pretend for 1 second that price didnt matter and that all the body panels were made of cf and nissan could build the car for 220k and get it down to say 3300lb and change nothing else!! Just thing what the performance numbers would be then!! I wasnt comparing it to the carrera gt i was comparing it to the carrera gt's performance numbers and how this car can perform on par with a car of that magnitude. And yes to answer your question i think what the 997.2 pdk can do is incredible and i dont think the next generation gtr will match this but i hope so. The gtr has 1 huge limitation that porsche doesnt and thats price, make the pkg work at 85k and just think of what these engineers had to compromise!!

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Best Motoring is some of the best Japanese propaganda I have ever seen. I'm surprised they aren't still showing the ancient NSX topping new Ferrari's. They haven't shown the GTR taking down a Veyron yet?

    Look, the GTR is a great car, handles well, nice mod platform. All that was said is it is not all the fast in stock form. When we are saying "fast" we are referring to the trap speed specifically. Yes, it is quite quick off the line thanks to AWD and the DCT.
    ok then we will agree to disagree with that statement then because to me fast is et's and lap time and not a trap speed, lol btw the ring time is propaganda, best motoring is propaganda, so lets add every publication that picks the gtr lol, i think the propaganda is saying that everything is propaganda.
    ttyl got work in the am lol...

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    when did i say it traps more that 119?
    what does fast mean to you?
    The Z06, ZR-1, Viper, and 997.2 Turbo are fast stock cars.

    The GTR 60-130 puts it right in the range of an E60 M5. Does that make the GTR more impressive or the E60 M5 more impressive? The M5 is slightly heavier...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    its that weight because of what they try and give you at that price point, you dont think that nissan knows that carbon fiber weighs less?? just pretend for 1 second that price didnt matter and that all the body panels were made of cf and nissan could build the car for 220k and get it down to say 3300lb and change nothing else!!
    Look, now we are speculating and dreaming.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    I wasnt comparing it to the carrera gt i was comparing it to the carrera gt's performance numbers and how this car can perform on par with a car of that magnitude.
    Uh, so that would mean you were comparing it to the Carrera GT.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    And yes to answer your question i think what the 997.2 pdk can do is incredible and i dont think the next generation gtr will match this but i hope so. The gtr has 1 huge limitation that porsche doesnt and thats price, make the pkg work at 85k and just think of what these engineers had to compromise!!
    The GTR can't price itself like a 911 turbo, that is insane. Half the appeal of the GTR is its pricepoint.
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    ok then we will agree to disagree with that statement then because to me fast is et's and lap time and not a trap speed, lol btw the ring time is propaganda, best motoring is propaganda, so lets add every publication that picks the gtr lol, i think the propaganda is saying that everything is propaganda.
    ttyl got work in the am lol...
    No, actually, every publication is not propaganda but you can't go by what the Japanese push themselves. Look at the most recent Road and Track comparison, here, I'll put it up for you. Keep in mind the 997 does not have PDK:

    Download File



    GTR finishes in last place:

    Download File



    ZR-1 has the fastest lap:

    Click here to enlarge
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  9. #34
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    i have a lot of GTR seat time, I don't think it's a 124mph trap speed car when stock. Maybe in perfect conditions with a -1100' DA. 11.8 @ 118-120 is more realistic. With the standard exhaust/tune/filters they pick up about 100rwhp and push high 10's @128-130. they make good HP when stock, but it's the torque that is really unbelievable. With the DCT it's just one endless wave of 400+ pounds of torque until you're past 100mph.
    Last edited by fstop7; 10-10-2010 at 05:04 AM.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
    i have a lot of GTR seat time, I don't think it's a 124mph trap speed car when stock. Maybe in perfect conditions with a -1100' DA. 11.8 @ 118-120 is more realistic.
    Exactly.
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  11. #36
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    i dont get your point with the r&t article, it did 0-60 in 3.3 and a 1/4 mile in 11.6 and it beat the pcar around the track so thats good! once again look what it gives up to the vette 4085l/ to 3530 in weight and 638hp vs 485, thats 153hp!!! and that gets you a tenth on the 1/4 and .5sec on the road coarse, find a car that is production that has 138hp less and has anywhere near the performance.And i dont mean some gutted out kit car

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    Originally Posted by MSIZZLE when did i say it traps more that 119?
    what does fast mean to you?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    lets go to the tail of the tape
    Gtr Carrera Gt
    Price:85,476- 448,400
    Weight:3908- 3146
    hp: 485-- 605
    tq : 430- 435
    eng: 3.8lttV6- 5.7l V10
    0-60: 3.4-- 3.5
    1/4:11.5@124 11.2@132
    70-0: 145------145
    Ring time: 7:26.70--7:28.71

    t!!!!
    This is one time.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    i dont get your point with the r&t article, it did 0-60 in 3.3 and a 1/4 mile in 11.6 and it beat the pcar around the track so thats good! once again look what it gives up to the vette 4085l/ to 3530 in weight and 638hp vs 485, thats 153hp!!! and that gets you a tenth on the 1/4 and .5sec on the road coarse, find a car that is production that has 138hp less and has anywhere near the performance.And i dont mean some gutted out kit car
    The point with the Road and Track article was to provide you a more realistic view than the numbers you posted.

    Yes, it beats the 911 around the track. The 911 is on an outdated platform, Porsche has pushed rear engine as far as they can and they need to evolve. Watch the Boxster grow to surpass the 911.

    The ET is traction dependent, what I have been saying. The thing is, the ZR-1 past the 1/4 leaves it in the dust and still finished ahead despite having to put way more power to the rear tires.

    A production car that has anywhere near the performance? The ZR-1 has more, the Z06 has more (for less), the Viper, the 997 turbo. The E60 M5 is slightly faster 60-130, same with the M6. The car handles really, really well for its weight, excellent job. But the straightline speed is overblown, that is the whole point.
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