Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313


    Reputation: Yes | No

    M6 vs. W213 E63 AMG modded

    Not sure if the M6 is modded or stock, although it would not surprise me if it was stock. The E63 has headers + tune.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbBe7JauJ9k
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,161
    Rep Points
    930.0
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    here is more info on that run, the owner claims he added headers and a tune and he lost hp,on the dyno's there is a 50whp swing though so i dont really understand whats what

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    here is more info on that run, the owner claims he added headers and a tune and he lost hp,on the dyno's there is a 50whp swing though so i dont really understand whats what
    I think he is full of $#@! personally. Who gets a tune and headers and claims to lose power?

    If I got a tune and it dyno'd less you better believe I would be getting a refund or that tuner would be doing what it took to make me happy. Losing power is not an option. I think he is just trying to claim the car is weaker to make it appear like the car is stronger than it really is.

    If a modded E63 can barely take a stock M6, that makes the M6 look good not the E63.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    880
    Rep Points
    594.0
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    that M6 has headers i believe...its all discussed over here: http://www.mbworld.org/forums/c63-am...s-c63-vid.html

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,161
    Rep Points
    930.0
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    i would have to think that a tune for an e63 with headers is probably a cookie cutter tune so i dont see why it would lose power, also there is no discussion of a base line, he was saying he lost power based on what he thinks the car should make stock so it just makes no sense!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    la la land
    Posts
    337
    Rep Points
    256.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    that M6 has headers i believe...its all discussed over here: http://www.mbworld.org/forums/c63-am...s-c63-vid.html
    Pretty sure he has RPI GT which is sec1/2/3... stock headers

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    lol. mexico E63? Those runs are going down Ocean Parkway and over Robert Moses Bridge..maybe 20 min from my house LOL

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    880
    Rep Points
    594.0
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    yeah all by jones beach it occurred......and my mistake the m6 doesnt have headers, just the full exhaust....
    ....thats a perfect place to race over there (least thats what I had thought), until a year ago when 4 of my buddies got followed by a helicopter and one of them wound up getting his car impounded...I try to steer clear of racing over there now, even though Sunday mornings flood that area with hundreds of cars and racing lol

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    and my mistake the m6 doesnt have headers
    Looks like the right outcome then for a tune + headers E63. M6's are strong up top, that is where they shine.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    1,453
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    If that's a K2 car I wouldn't really call them headers, they are log manifolds that dyno anywhere from 0-6hp over stock.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    If that's a K2 car I wouldn't really call them headers, they are log manifolds that dyno anywhere from 0-6hp over stock.
    So people buy them why?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    1,453
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So people buy them why?
    Outstanding question.

    Our tune only cars regularly beat their tune/exh. manifold cars and I do believe cutting and welding is involved with the K2 manifolds.

    I would guess name recognition at this point, Kleemann is making LT headers or is in the process of, however from what I hear they are still not really LTs. Even they know the manifolds don't work very well if at all.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think he is full of $#@! personally. Who gets a tune and headers and claims to lose power?

    If I got a tune and it dyno'd less you better believe I would be getting a refund or that tuner would be doing what it took to make me happy. Losing power is not an option. I think he is just trying to claim the car is weaker to make it appear like the car is stronger than it really is.

    If a modded E63 can barely take a stock M6, that makes the M6 look good not the E63.
    Interesting, I came across this thread by accident and realized that it is my E63 that is in the video. I can assure you that my E63 did loose power after the Kleemann headers installation. There is plenty of discussion about that and documented by several dyno sheets (http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w212-a...-w212-e63.html). In fact, I decided to go back to stock manifolds (I also paid 0 for the headers).
    The car power band is back to normal now (also documented by the dyno run in the same thread) after putting back stock manifolds. I was surprised myself with the result and to date there was no conclusive reason as why this happened. These headers+hf cats were not designed for W212 but were adapted from the W211 setup. So who knows. The car lost power after installing the headers (not after the ECU tune).

    Anyway, all the dyno sheets are in that thread with pre, post dynos. Just FYI. So today I am at the following configuration: Kleemann ECU (K1), K&N, ROW air boxes, charcoals delete, primary cat delete (stock manifolds).
    BTW, I told the guy that I ran with (M6) that I am down on power before we did the run.
    Last edited by AlbertM; 12-14-2010 at 06:05 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlbertM Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, I came across this thread by accident and realized that it is my E63 that is in the video. I can assure you that my E63 did loose power after the Kleemann headers installation. There is plenty of discussion about that and documented by several dyno sheets (http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w212-a...-w212-e63.html). In fact, I decided to go back to stock manifolds (I also paid 0 for the headers).
    The car power band is back to normal now (also documented by the dyno run in the same thread) after putting back stock manifolds. I was surprised myself with the result and to date there was no conclusive reason as why this happened. These headers+hf cats were not designed for W212 but were adapted from the W211 setup. So who knows. The car lost power after installing the headers (not after the ECU tune).

    Anyway, all the dyno sheets are in that thread with pre, post dynos. Just FYI. So today I am at the following configuration: Kleemann ECU (K1), K&N, ROW air boxes, charcoals delete, primary cat delete (stock manifolds).
    BTW, I told the guy that I ran with (M6) that I am down on power before we did the run.

    If its more power your after, maybe time to get ahold of MHP? Click here to enlarge

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlbertM Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, I came across this thread by accident and realized that it is my E63 that is in the video. I can assure you that my E63 did loose power after the Kleemann headers installation. There is plenty of discussion about that and documented by several dyno sheets (http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w212-a...-w212-e63.html). In fact, I decided to go back to stock manifolds (I also paid 0 for the headers).
    The car power band is back to normal now (also documented by the dyno run in the same thread) after putting back stock manifolds. I was surprised myself with the result and to date there was no conclusive reason as why this happened. These headers+hf cats were not designed for W212 but were adapted from the W211 setup. So who knows. The car lost power after installing the headers (not after the ECU tune).

    Anyway, all the dyno sheets are in that thread with pre, post dynos. Just FYI. So today I am at the following configuration: Kleemann ECU (K1), K&N, ROW air boxes, charcoals delete, primary cat delete (stock manifolds).
    BTW, I told the guy that I ran with (M6) that I am down on power before we did the run.
    I can understand why the headers don't give you gains but why wouldn't the tune? What kind of tune is it exactly that you lose power with?

    Hopefully you guys can run again.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    The tune did not loose power, the power loss happened after the header install. The tune was fine.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlbertM Click here to enlarge
    The tune did not loose power, the power loss happened after the header install. The tune was fine.
    So you had more power than stock?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Ok, I never had a stock dyno so I dont know, What I know is that ECU tune vs ECU tune+headers lost power, meaning dyno @ ECU only produced more power (+16hp) vs ECU+headers. I am not comparing stock vs ECU+headers, I am comparing ECU only vs ECU+headers. Now ECU+stock headers+catdelete (which where I am today) produced even more power than ECU only setup. I hope that clarifies this.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So you had more power than stock?
    Can't tell for sure but based on other dynos that I've seen a stock E63 W212s do anywhere from 395 to 410 (SAE) depending on a dynojet. Mine dynoed basically around the same with ECU+headers, so overall I would say that probably not. It seems like with the ECU+headers my car dynoed around where the stock should be, but I don't know for sure. I would agree that a stock E63 would loose to an stock M6 simply because of the weight difference. Keep in mind that mine weighs around 4600lbs (actually weighed my car) with me in it. That is almost 400lbs heavier then M6. The 10-15hp difference at the crank isn't going to make up for that.
    Last edited by AlbertM; 12-15-2010 at 01:15 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,104
    Rep Points
    31,294.1
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    313



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlbertM Click here to enlarge
    Can't tell for sure but based on other dynos that I've seen a stock E63 W212s do anywhere from 395 to 410 (SAE) depending on a dynojet. Mine dynoed basically around the same with ECU+headers, so overall I would say that probably not. It seems like with the ECU+headers my car dynoed around where the stock should be, but I don't know for sure. I would agree that a stock E63 would loose to an stock M6 simply because of the weight difference. Keep in mind that mine weighs around 4600lbs (actually weighed my car) with me in it. That is almost 400lbs heavier then M6. The 10-15hp difference at the crank isn't going to make up for that.
    The only way you would not be making more power is if the headers erased gains by the tune. I don't believe they would create that kind of restriction. Sure, they gained no power but would they have cost you everything you gained with the tune? That does not make sense to me.

    The weight is one factor but also that the S85 powerband is strong primarily up top. I think what would give a much more clear picture would hopefully be to set up another run.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I cant speak about the reasons, I can only go by what I measured and real-world runs. I think that is what happened, the headers somehow erased all the ECU gains. There is no way to know why, since I stopped experimenting and went back to stock manifolds.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Did you happen to run the burgundy M6? Lowered with full RPi exhaust?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Did you happen to run the burgundy M6? Lowered with full RPi exhaust?
    No, but I am pretty sure it is faster even now that I back to normal. I would not mind running both stock and RPi M6.Click here to enlarge

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I wish I could get the RPi guy to run, but hes returning the car back to stock tomorrow Click here to enlarge

    He dynoed the car at Speedworld, it made 462 on a dynojet, with just exhaust. People are saying he has a factory freak but beats me ?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    462? SAE corrected or not? My car made 457 uncorrected and 435 corrected with the current mods. So should be pretty close. You can only compare corrected numbers.
    I don't think his numbers are surprising, stock M6 should dyno around 415-425, so 20-30 hp gain from the exhaust work is possible.
    Last edited by AlbertM; 12-15-2010 at 04:23 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •