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  1. #1
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    A few ideas for the M30 (read: lots of boost)

    A few people on here know me for taking the long and hard way about things, especially when it comes to cars. I was never one to really follow the crowd, and although people have boosted these engines, 98% of them were either home brew turbo kits on the cheap, or a pre-made turbo kit that cost an exorbitant amount and gave you something like a measly 350hp.


    I've decided to make this my final project, my all out or bust Click here to enlarge. The gf is going back to school for 2 more years so I have a time limit to finish it and then start saving for that rock Click here to enlarge

    Starting with the basics, the engine will be an M30B35 sourced from my friends 92 735. No one has shown how far the stock bottom end will go on a good tune without blowing it up, and at 9:1 compression I think it should be able to take a lot. This isn't going to say that i will remain this way...rods and pistons can be an option.

    For the head, there are a few different routes to choose from. Paul Burke is offering several packages, head kits and both head and engine packages, and Miller Performance in Canada. Both are very reputable sources, and if someone else has a shop that knows this engine well then feel free to add. Being a SOHC setup has me at a little bit of a disadvantage when it compares to you M50/S50 setups, but I can know of at least one car that squeezed over 400hp on a completely stock junkyard engine. Obviously this won't be the case with this engine LOL. These engines do suffer from a slight issue of retaining heat in the combustion chamber (running high compression on 100 octane in this engine will actually still knock even at modest ignition levels because the stock head doesn't flow all that great), so there will be some thorough research involved to keep this issue to a non existent level.

    Now comes the fun part, the large hairdryer Click here to enlarge. Jon at 666 Fabrication makes a wonderful tubular exhaust manifold for this engine so this will be finding it's way onto this engine. As far as wastegate control I am leaning towards an HKS GT2, I have used this to control large units up to a GT35R on Porsches of comparable displacement). The GT waste gate was a bit overkill in the fact it's expensive ($1000+) and it's sheer size makes it hard to fit in the engine bay. The turbo in question is a BW S362 T3 based setup with a .70 AR...something that will support 25-30 psi and possibly more and still get a decent spool time, make full boost at 3200 rpm give or take a few.

    As far as fueling goes, this is where my path diverges from the rest. After a recent discussion with a co-worker and some friends ive decided to go the E85 route. At this point i know the entire stock fuel system will have to get tossed. E85 is new to me in a sense I have never used it or experienced any of my friends having this setup. The most I know about it is that I'm going to need at least double the amount of fuel needed compared to a regular gas setup. All the rubber components will have to go, I'm assuming even the injector o-rings. I know one Aeromotive 1000 pump is good to support 500+ on 93, would I need two to support it's requirements? I also know that adding two fuel pumps does not necessarily mean I will get double the capacity...usually the rule of the thumb is 1+1= 1.5-ish.

    I was looking over Boris' setup and he runs 2400cc injectors...I don't think I will need such large injectors but I really do suck at mathematical calculations Click here to enlarge

    Intercooling will consist of a liquid to air setup mounted over the top of the engine. I chose this route because I did not want to hack up the bumper and the BBS Valence that I got with the car. These are pretty rare and I like the way it looks. It also allows me to keep intercooler piping to a minimum, distance wise for reduction in spool time as well. Now I intend on keeping the AC in the car as well...so this leaves no room in the front for any kind of heat exchanger. Enter Jon at 666 once again, when I sat down with him at EPL last month and discussed possibly running a heat-exchanger mounted in the back of the car, along with mounting the storage box for the water and the pump. This keeps the engine bay clutter to a minimum and allows for a cleaner setup.

    As discussed in the S65 HPF thread, Engine management is leaning towards a Pectel unit given all it's bells and whistles....but I have some experience in Electromotive and about 2 years worth in Haltech systems...not much by any means but it is a start. I'm always open to more learning and more ideas.

    At the moment this is about all I can think of....it's about time I take all my ideas and put them down on paper, it gives me some kind of place to start.

  2. #2
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    This might help, if you get a new girlfriend she won't be expecting a rock early on therefore you can take that money and apply it toward the car.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  3. #3
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    LMFAO!

    All kidding aside I think I've met your girl before once my friend lauren with her silver g37 sedan brought her to a meet once with her 335.

    Goodluck on the project! Im trying to get a hold of an E34 right now maybe an M50/M52 with a holset hx40 Click here to enlarge
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  4. #4
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by folgrz Click here to enlarge
    LMFAO!

    All kidding aside I think I've met your girl before once my friend lauren with her silver g37 sedan brought her to a meet once with her 335.

    Goodluck on the project! Im trying to get a hold of an E34 right now maybe an M50/M52 with a holset hx40 Click here to enlarge
    yup that would be her. Lauren comes by the shop from time to time as well lol

  5. #5
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    Lauren cute?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Lauren cute?
    a little bit..and shes not single.

  7. #7
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    Talk to Dan at miller performance. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to these m30 engines. He can help you out. They also have a very nice air to liquid cooler for that engine. Might be something to think about.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    a little bit..and shes not single.
    LOL @ a little bit
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  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Talk to Dan at miller performance. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to these m30 engines. He can help you out. They also have a very nice air to liquid cooler for that engine. Might be something to think about.
    Yeah their intercooler setup is really nice....it's also like 1500.....and I think it's meant for a bottom mount turbo....I plan on using the top mount 666 setup and I think I might just have Jon at 666 fabricate me one. I will check it out and see.

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Yeah their intercooler setup is really nice....it's also like 1500.....and I think it's meant for a bottom mount turbo....I plan on using the top mount 666 setup and I think I might just have Jon at 666 fabricate me one. I will check it out and see.
    Your right, theirs is made for a bottom mount.

  11. #11
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    if this idea transpires to be more than just that an idea, i think it'd be pretty sick Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Some comments:

    I like your mentality, the M30 is one of my favorite little engines; simple and easy to build. Can make good power with boost.

    I like that you want to keep A/C.

    I do not think you need to trash all rubber when using E85, there are certain compounds out there like Viton that are rubber-like and do not corrode to E85. There are a number of companies that sell seals and such for E85 fueling conversions such as yours.

    You will requre more fuel with E85, the AF ratio is bout 9:1. It is very race friendly and inhibits detonation so any worry you had about your heads causing poor combustion can be helped greatly by the E85.

    Headwork and valvework will help your turbochargers efficiency.

    Keep us updated.
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  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Some comments:

    I like your mentality, the M30 is one of my favorite little engines; simple and easy to build. Can make good power with boost.

    I like that you want to keep A/C.

    I do not think you need to trash all rubber when using E85, there are certain compounds out there like Viton that are rubber-like and do not corrode to E85. There are a number of companies that sell seals and such for E85 fueling conversions such as yours.

    You will requre more fuel with E85, the AF ratio is bout 9:1. It is very race friendly and inhibits detonation so any worry you had about your heads causing poor combustion can be helped greatly by the E85.

    Headwork and valvework will help your turbochargers efficiency.

    Keep us updated.
    Thanks for the advice. I haven't really looked into e85 in depth yet but I just knew that standard rubber reinforced fuel hose from the auto parts store wasn't going to cut it. I was going to run straight braided line, I assume they make some that is e85 compatible?

    I had someone help me out with the math needed for the injectors and I'm looking at 2200s to start with. I also have to dig into wideband 02s again....we used to use the NTK ones (a side company of NGK) but Im not sure what the lowest they read was. I had limited use with the innovate LC1 (the gauge one like AEM) but it had a fault in it and never worked correctly. I also used the LM1 and liked it but the big controller was just too bulky.

    I am leaning towards the AEM one, unless with the engine management I am able to integrate a wideband setup into it to run closed loop part throttle control, and have it displayed on a Racepak or something.

    I was running over my drivetrain list and so far the only things I have are an 88 E30 M3 gearbox (I have an 85 model year car, and we were the only ones to get a Getrag 265/5 box, the same as the M3 with slightly different gearing and bellhousing) and a 'big case' LSD out of a euro 735il....the gearbox I'm getting as a partial trade from a guy who I'm doing a euro m3 dogleg box swap for, and he knows someone who has the LSD for about $300.

    The clutch is my biggest dilemma. I really really do not want to do a puck setup....its just way too heavy, and even though I'm 'hardcore', driving it in NYC or sitting in traffic with it is going to be a nightmare. People have had good success with Kevlar clutches but all it takes is one slip and it's burnt for good. A carbon/carbon clutch would be great, but that is $$$$$$ and id have to get one custom made. A twin disc small puck clutch would be a lot easier on the leg, and I could deal with the on/off characteristics...but again $$$$$ and no one makes one off the shelf. Guess I will be pioneering some stuff in this area.

    Brakes: rears will be an e34 535 or a 735 upgrade, bolts on pad and rotors. As for the fronts, a guy in Australia managed to make a custom bracket that would fit 4 piston calipers off an E38 7 series (yes the rest of the world got cool brembos on the 740 while we got 1 piston sliders), and they fit with E60 545i front rotors....which are a whopping 13.7" in diameter....paired with the e34 rears and a 735 master cylinder the bias stays almost the same and braking/abs functions are just like stock...except it hauls you down VERY quickly.
    This will run me about $1000 total for the entire brake setup.


    I think that's all I have at the moment. I'm really tempted to ditch the bodywork first in favor of the power. All these years ive listened to others and had a really nice car that was slow as dog$#@!. Time to make a change.

  14. #14
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    I cant help you with the brakes or clutch but for the injector size i am used to sizing using domestic lb/hr injector units. You can google the conversion factor.

    For a 3L engine pushing about 20 psi you intend to make about 500 whp, my suggestion is to go with 60 lb/hr injectors, whatever that equates to in cc/min.

    E85 is very good fuel for race applications especially boost, only thing to watch out for is you A/F conversion; make sure the wideband you use shows you lambda and not A/F because A/F is irrelevant when viewing lambda. I have great success with my LC1, i dont know why it doesnt work for some people. I have heard of a lot of people that had issues with LC1s but I honestly think you have to wire it particularly good when it comes to ground. READ the instructions when using it and you will be good to go. My LC1 has served me well.
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  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I cant help you with the brakes or clutch but for the injector size i am used to sizing using domestic lb/hr injector units. You can google the conversion factor.

    For a 3L engine pushing about 20 psi you intend to make about 500 whp, my suggestion is to go with 60 lb/hr injectors, whatever that equates to in cc/min.

    E85 is very good fuel for race applications especially boost, only thing to watch out for is you A/F conversion; make sure the wideband you use shows you lambda and not A/F because A/F is irrelevant when viewing lambda. I have great success with my LC1, i dont know why it doesnt work for some people. I have heard of a lot of people that had issues with LC1s but I honestly think you have to wire it particularly good when it comes to ground. READ the instructions when using it and you will be good to go. My LC1 has served me well.
    60lb/hr for a gas car? Ive used those and 85ers on porsche turbo race cars to make 500-600 on gas. I think with the amount of ethanol i need injectors roughly double that size right? 20Psi is just going to be the starting point Click here to enlarge

    and you were right about the LC1. I followed it to a T but i remember having problems with the ground. I think the owner tried to put it in himself and $#@!ed it up in the process. It was a really nice gauge too. Who knows if its easier to get running than i think it is i might buy it.

  16. #16
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    my friend just did an e85 setup in his evo, ended up using 8 1000cc injectors

    I believe that 1000cc is equal to 95lb/hr
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  17. #17
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    lol 8 95lbs injectors...LOL

  18. #18
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    Oh I forgot E85 needs more fuel. Yea 60s might not cut it, you will probably need 85s.
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  19. #19
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    Yeah 60s would be pushing it on gas....I will definitely need at least 90lbers in there

  20. #20
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    Matt, why even mess around with E85? Get the fuel system down on pump first and then go E85 later if you want. I would say the attention should be focused in other areas for now.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    getting the engine running on E85 first time out wouldnt be hard, lots of people have done it. And once you tune for gas youll have to re-tune for 85, might as well start out on 85.

    Just because the AFR is 9:1 doesnt mean you can add 15% more fuel everywhere, it has a different burn rate and cooling capability so youll want to work on timing tables too, I would just tune straight on E85.
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  22. #22
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    I say stick with pump but do whatever you want Matt Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Or if you have balls run pure methanol, as fuel.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Or if you have balls run pure methanol, as fuel.
    Might as well just go nitromethane if we are getting crazy.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Might as well just go nitromethane if we are getting crazy.
    Now you're just getting me hard.
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