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    vortech V3si hard trackwork limitations?

    hi guys i dont own an m3, i run a ess supercharged z4m using the v3si blower, its the same blower now used for most of ESS kits that use a centrifugal blower, i have to say firstly my ESS kit has performed faultlessly the smaller tracks ive run so far, i admittedly havent extended my car fully on a larger track, ive been stuck on my local small tracks this year, anyhow back to the point, i was at a very well respected uk tuner who told me the v3si blower is a great blower but its not a good unit for track work as its small amount of self contained oil allows the blower to get real hot quickly, i was just wondering if anyones experienced any issues with this new e9x (ess VT series) V3si, or had any issues at the track with their blower, im asking here as obviously the s/c community is alot bigger than that on the z4m's so i was hoping people with the vt series would give me alittle insight after prolonged track usuage. thankyou in advance for any help with this one. so far the v3si has proved itself to me to be a very good unit, low noise, great top end power, and a lovely smooth powerband.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    me the v3si blower is a great blower but its not a good unit for track work as its small amount of self contained oil allows the blower to get real hot quickly,
    This can be true and is one of the arguments against it, also that the oil is supposed to be lifetime but I believe it can be changed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    i was just wondering if anyones experienced any issues with this new e9x (ess VT series) V3si, or had any issues at the track with their blower, im asking here as obviously the s/c community is alot bigger than that on the z4m's so i was hoping people with the vt series would give me alittle insight after prolonged track usuage. thankyou in advance for any help with this one. so far the v3si has proved itself to me to be a very good unit, low noise, great top end power, and a lovely smooth powerband.
    You do not have any addition cooling or even an intercooler I believe, correct? So I can see your concern. What I have seen from the V3si kits is they have performed flawlessly and have their own set of advantages as well. The thing is, those are all setups running additional cooling.

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    another interesting topic
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This can be true and is one of the arguments against it, also that the oil is supposed to be lifetime but I believe it can be changed.



    You do not have any addition cooling or even an intercooler I believe, correct? So I can see your concern. What I have seen from the V3si kits is they have performed flawlessly and have their own set of advantages as well. The thing is, those are all setups running additional cooling.
    The v3si oil isnt lifetime oil........ the first oil change change is due at 2000 miles which is running in oil, then after that the oil should be changed every 7500 miles, or in my case ill do inline with car servicing as ill never hit the mileage marker, the VT1 is a 5psi kit, ive carefully measured water, oil temps and im getting no heat build up and temps are as the car was when it was stock. The v3si is a brilliant blower, i was just wondering if anyone has experienced any issues after prolonged track use? ive asked this question on other forums and im getting no response so i guess that answers my question ;-)
    i love the fact the v3si has its own oil supply, seperate from the cars engine oil but i suppose their will be limitations on a heat range where the s/c will loose efficiency, i just wondered if anyone had approached this threshold, after seeing the inside of a v3si unit i was i have to say very impressed with vortech's design, proper baffled internals to keep oil where it should be, the oil capacity is alot more than expecting also, i guess ill have to hit the track hard to see if i get issues, i can say as per my OP, on the local smaller tracks in getting no issues, just consistant smooth power. so far (touches wood) the v3 as said by sticky has performed flawlessly, do the other kits, gintani for example use the v3si? i know AA use hks blowers, did anyone ever do a vortech vs hks, vs ASA type thread to document pros & cons of each type.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    The v3si oil isnt lifetime oil........ the first oil change change is due at 2000 miles which is running in oil, then after that the oil should be changed every 7500 miles,
    There we go, makes sense.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    i love the fact the v3si has its own oil supply, seperate from the cars engine oil but i suppose their will be limitations on a heat range where the s/c will loose efficiency, i just wondered if anyone had approached this threshold, after seeing the inside of a v3si unit i was i have to say very impressed with vortech's design,
    Vortech themselves would actually be the best to contact on it. In your case I would be more concerned without the intercooler but no one has reported any failures. Having its own oil supply has its advantages as stated.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    do the other kits, gintani for example use the v3si? i know AA use hks blowers, did anyone ever do a vortech vs hks, vs ASA type thread to document pros & cons of each type.
    Gintani uses the Vortech T-Trim and also the Ysi for built motor applications. These blowers are capably of much more power than the v3si but are not self contained which has pros and cons. I have thought about doing a blower comparison and I think I will.

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    sticky if you would do a blower comparision, that would be great, shout me a message for any info you need Re the v3si, im sure i can help!
    @ 5psi im happy with the non-intercooled VT-1 especially as i live in the uk, with is cold pretty much all year, once you start getting to VT-2 levels of power heat will definatly be an issue.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    @ 5psi im happy with the non-intercooled VT-1 especially as i live in the uk, with is cold pretty much all year, once you start getting to VT-2 levels of power heat will definatly be an issue.
    Yep, but you can't go to VT-2 so don't worry about it Click here to enlarge

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    VT-2??? ESS dont want to help?? ill make my own VT-2!! its a small detail that ESS wont help, all i need from them is the tune.... the rest, ill sort out myself!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    VT-2??? ESS dont want to help?? ill make my own VT-2!! its a small detail that ESS wont help, all i need from them is the tune.... the rest, ill sort out myself!!
    Will they help you with the tune?

    Ridiculous you have to do this yourself, have you talked to fr8dog?

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    Get a v2 on that car with an air to water cooler. You will be very happy. Click here to enlarge

    I've never been too fond of the v3's. Something about the self contained oil just doesn't sit right with me...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Something about the self contained oil just doesn't sit right with me...
    Me either, but explain your perspective.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Me either, but explain your perspective.
    Well, first off, Vortech won't tell you what kind of oil is used in the V3. This means you are forced to pay whatever they want for their oil. I know it can be found somewhere else for cheaper if we only knew what kind of oil it is. Then there is the heat issue. Without proper cooling of the blower's oil, I don't see how it can be very efficient in a race application. Then we get to the fact that you can only mount the blower within a certain range of rotation, too much to either side and all of the oil will be blown out through the breather. This limits the location in which you can mount the blower. Also, I have no proof of this, but I wonder how quickly the oil will lose its viscosity when subjected to excessive high rev's and heat.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Well, first off, Vortech won't tell you what kind of oil is used in the V3. This means you are forced to pay whatever they want for their oil. I know it can be found somewhere else for cheaper if we only knew what kind of oil it is.
    Did not know that, that seems very unfriendly on the part of Vortech.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Then there is the heat issue. Without proper cooling of the blower's oil, I don't see how it can be very efficient in a race application.
    True, but it seems they use a water-air setup which can definitely handle the cooling. Although I don't know for sure.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Then we get to the fact that you can only mount the blower within a certain range of rotation, too much to either side and all of the oil will be blown out through the breather. This limits the location in which you can mount the blower.
    Interesting, did not know this as well.

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    Do you have any more info on the cooling they use for the V3? I would be interested in reading up on it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Do you have any more info on the cooling they use for the V3? I would be interested in reading up on it.
    I don't know too much about it other than what they state on their site:

    The E9x M3 VT2-600 supercharger system comes with a high capacity liquid intercooler system and especially developed cast aluminium manifold assembly with integrated heat exchanger in VT2 configuration.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know too much about it other than what they state on their site:

    That sounds like they are talking about charge cooling, not oil cooling. I have never heard of an oil cooler for the v3. I do think it would be a good idea for someone to design one.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    That sounds like they are talking about charge cooling, not oil cooling. I have never heard of an oil cooler for the v3. I do think it would be a good idea for someone to design one.
    Yes, you are quite right. All they say is they have a oil "breather" whatever that means.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, you are quite right. All they say is they have a oil "breather" whatever that means.
    I believe the "oil breather" they are referring to is the brass fitting on the top of the blower. There are two fittings, one is a dipstick and the other is a breather. The breather is the very reason you are limited as to what angle you can mount the blower. Obviously, you can't mount the blower with the breather pointing down because all the oil will drain out. This is one of the things that bothers me the most. As you probably know, Vortech blowers can be "clocked" any way you want which will change where the outlet of the blower ends up. Some engine bays may require an odd position and if that is the case, the v3 will be impossible to use.

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    Thatdonfc... the v3si can be clocked.... their are mutiple brass blanked holes for the breather to be fitted depending on the postion of the blower.....(the v3si is mounted upside down in the m5), As for the self contained oil, ive asked soo many different people now the same question, ive not had a single person come back to me to say theve overheated their blower, ive spoke to numerous 700bhp plus builds from norway all using the v3si, and not one single person has manged to over heat this blower or blow the oil out the breather, how can it blow oil out their breather when their is no possitve oil pressure at all, so that argument sucks ass imo. Here we have a blower than can make over 700hp with the right hardware, its compact, makes little s/c noise (some whistle but alot of induction noise) uses its own oil that costs 15.00gbp, for the 15gbp i get enough oil for three oil changes. Now lets get onto chargers that share engine oil...... have you ever seen an oil report on a heavily tracked car where the s/c uses the motor oil?? maybe you should go pick one up... you'll be amazed at the extra contaminents added to the oil from a hardworked s/c unit.

    to cut long story short.......... their are benefits and pitfalls to all types of s/c but after alot of research the v3si is right up with the best, and its efficiency is marketleading ;-). thanks for the interesting reading guys!! :-)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    Thatdonfc... the v3si can be clocked.... their are mutiple brass blanked holes for the breather to be fitted depending on the postion of the blower.....(the v3si is mounted upside down in the m5),
    You are right, the V3 can be clocked. I only know of 4 tapped holes in the blower that will accept the breather and dipstick. So the possible position is either vertical with two holes at the top or, vertical with the other two holes at the top. Vortech will tell you that you can rotate the blower so the breather and dipstick are at a slight angle but there is a limit. Also, if the breather and dipstick are horizontal, the blower will leak the oil due to the gears splashing the oil and the dipstick will not read properly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    As for the self contained oil, ive asked soo many different people now the same question, ive not had a single person come back to me to say theve overheated their blower, ive spoke to numerous 700bhp plus builds from norway all using the v3si, and not one single person has manged to over heat this blower
    This was just something I felt. Not based on any facts. I have not done any testing nor do I plan to. So thank you for clearing that up for me.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    or blow the oil out the breather, how can it blow oil out their breather when their is no possitve oil pressure at all, so that argument sucks ass imo.
    Again, if the blower is mounted at an aggressive angle, the oil will splash out. I have spoken to Vortech on this issue.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    Here we have a blower than can make over 700hp with the right hardware, its compact, makes little s/c noise (some whistle but alot of induction noise) uses its own oil that costs 15.00gbp, for the 15gbp i get enough oil for three oil changes. Now lets get onto chargers that share engine oil...... have you ever seen an oil report on a heavily tracked car where the s/c uses the motor oil?? maybe you should go pick one up... you'll be amazed at the extra contaminents added to the oil from a hardworked s/c unit.

    to cut long story short.......... their are benefits and pitfalls to all types of s/c but after alot of research the v3si is right up with the best, and its efficiency is marketleading ;-). thanks for the interesting reading guys!! :-)
    I didn't say that the v3 is a bad blower. I just said that I would prefer not to use it because of all the things I listed above. You are definitely right, all blowers have their pro's and con's. I'm gld it works for you.

    Now, get an air to liquid cooler on that bad boy so you can make some serious power!

    -Chris

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    Thanks chris.... U make some great constructive arguments..... Im looking into a custom air/ liquid cooler!! Luckily as im in england its always freezing...... So it always performs well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by beedub Click here to enlarge
    Thanks chris.... U make some great constructive arguments..... Im looking into a custom air/ liquid cooler!! Luckily as im in england its always freezing...... So it always performs well.
    Thanks man, you too.

    Good luck on your cooler! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Thanks man, you too.

    Good luck on your cooler! Can't wait to see what you come up with!
    Looks like he will have to go custom but I'm wondering if he will need a new tune? And if so, will ESS help him?

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    He will definitely need an update on his software if he wants to raise the boost. He might also need bigger injectors depending on how much he raises the boost.

    No body makes a separate manifold for the s54 that he might be able to modify?

    Also, Sticky, you might want to move this thread to the s54 section since it is in regards to the z4m.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    No body makes a separate manifold for the s54 that he might be able to modify?
    No idea.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    He might also need bigger injectors depending on how much he raises the boost.
    Where could he get bigger injectors from since ESS won't help him?

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