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  1. #1
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    JB3 2.0 & Procede V4 Boost + Ignition Graphical Comparison

    Background
    Dzenno and I thought it would be interesting to compare boost and ignition curves for the JB3 V2.0 and Procede V4 by combing our data logs of a ¼ mile pass we each performed this summer. The graph plots the data from a ¼ mile pass from each of our cars both of which resulted in a 121mph trap speed.

    We thought that because our trap speed results were the same, it would be interesting to compare the way our boost and ignition behaved. You can draw your own observations and conclusions from this comparison but it does point out some differences. We look forward to hearing people’s thoughts on these results, and in particular the thoughts of the more technically savvy community members.

    JB3 Car (Map 11)
    · Auto transmission
    · VC2 Meth (80/20 meth mix) 8 psi min 12 psi max
    · CM7 + CM5 dual nozze setup
    · MS109 Race Gas
    · Full Bolt Ons
    · MT Drag Radials

    Procede V4 Car
    · Manual ransmission
    · VC2 Meth (80/20 meth mix) 8 psi min 12 psi max
    · CM7 nozzle
    · MS103 Race Gas
    · Full Bolt Ons
    · MT Drag Radials

    Graph
    Click here to enlarge

    Initial Observations
    · The spikes showing in Dzenno’s boost curve are shift spikes
    · Dzenno’s timing is consistently strong throughout 3rd and 4th gear
    · Irish’s curve is radically different and a little low but shows a steady climb post shift
    · Dzenno’s low boost during 1st gear was established through Procede settings to produce less torque on launch to preserve his axels
    · 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear boost is very similar between the two tunes (JB3 slightly higher boost)

    The JB3 track run used in this comparison was executed in May of this year. Since the time of the run, I have gone to dual CM7 nozzles and am running a 60/40 meth mix based on a lot of feedback I received from the community. I am also no longer running Map 11 and have dropped down to Map 10 for the track.
    In executing these changes my ignition timing has improved significantly (consistently 8-12 degrees) with this approach. Using this approach, I was also able to record a 123mph trap. Dzenno can respond to any questions regarding his curves.

    We look forward to your observations and hopefully this kind of comparison adds some value to the community in an effort to learn more about our tunes in a high performance high boost scenario.
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  2. #2
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    If I'm reading the graph right.. at roughly the same boost pressure (with you running a bit more overall) but with one less nozzle and lower octane race gas dzenno's car had much more advance in every gear?

    It would be interesting to see how your car performed with the v4
    Last edited by jpsimon; 10-20-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    If I'm reading the graph right.. at roughly the same boost pressure (with you running a bit more overall) but with one less nozzle and lower octane race gas the dzenno's car had much more advance in every gear?
    Correct.
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  4. #4
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    btw, great comparison. This data is very interesting
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  5. #5
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    Hmm interesting...I don't need to know the differences but it is interesting to know...What does a little more advance mean? Sorry newb here haha
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    Titanium Silver 2003 335 Ci || Premium Package || Sport Package || SOLD
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  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hworang00 Click here to enlarge
    Hmm interesting...I don't need to know the differences but it is interesting to know...What does a little more advance mean? Sorry newb here haha
    Check out the thread that Laloosh started, it has an explanation of this.
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  7. #7
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    Bring them to the same dyno!
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    That orange line is someones timing??? The blue line is perfect timing! Why do i think that V4 makes your timing perfect?? Irish's timing looks like a good example of bad timing.. Sorry to be so bold. I was having the same issue with dual nozzles until i went to double 7s. I know it sounds crazy but my pump seemed to be pumping less fluid when I tested it after running two nozzles for an extended period of time. A CM5 is only producing 250ml/min on my pump instead of 340.... I had awesome timing with one nozzle, I went to two and my pump took a break and so did my timing. Took me dual 7s and a solenoid to get it to look like the procede log. I wish I had gotten a cm 10 instead of two 5s! then a 7 and now 2 7s. I just installed an old cm 5 to see if the volume would help meas opposed to the DO 7 in the adapter. I looked at it in a test spray and man that thing looks like a garden hose spraying... We will see how it does....
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Bring them to the same dyno!
    no need to. the 1/4 mile traps speak for themselves

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    He posted the actual timing curves on n54tech. Interesting when you see the details. Irishace needs more octane (and probably a little less boost) which I believe he later addressed. Dzenno has a few timing spikes he should check in to as well.

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    They actually posted more logging graphs in the "other" forum as well. Dzenno's timing shifts were attributed to actual throttle body position.

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    no need to. the 1/4 mile traps speak for themselves
    Not exactly, some misleading traps have been thrown around.
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  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not exactly, some misleading traps have been thrown around.
    Nothing misleading about my traps, I have never been anything but 100% honest in communicating my results which includes capturing video evidence as well as had people with my during all of my passes. I too can vouche for Dzenno's 121mph trap. Any times and speeds you see from us you can be assured that they are 100% authentic.

    That being said, I don't think you are referring to me, and I do understand what you are pointing out.
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    So, to clarify... the JB3 logs look to need more octane however there are no dips in what appears to be low timming and thats a good thing. Had the timing been higher with dips in it through the rpm progression...it would actually have been worse.?> Does that make sense then that an abrupt change in timing is more characteristic of knock than say just low timing? And could it be argued that a sudden dip in timing might be as a result of temp and not low octane?

    Finally I have been reading how the DV is blowing hot air from the turbo's back into the mix. Perhaps blowing off into the atmosphere which for the most part, is back under the hood may slightly help fight the little heat related dips?

    My damn stock FMIC is surely the culprit in my tiiming issues, it can't be octane with as much meth as I am spraying. I was thinking of trying a DIY BoV set-up with a couple of breather filters to see if it makes a difference...I don't think it will but I haven't got enough saved from my BIG ToM fMIc just yet.... actually I do but I am having a strut mount issue that is driving me nuts!
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

  15. #15
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    The whole point of meth in this application is to maximize the power for your boost levels IMHO. That means you want to see timing maxed out at whatever boost level you wind up at. If it's not maxing out, or exibits drop outs, you can better optimize it by reducing boost and/or increasing meth volume. The failsafe is critical as you'll be sitting at max advance so if meth cuts out the engine will definitely knock. Same goes during spool up if meth isn't flowing yet. The failsafe serves the equally important task of limiting boost until meth is in the manifold.

  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge

    That being said, I don't think you are referring to me, and I do understand what you are pointing out.
    Exactly correct Click here to enlarge
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