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Thread: Motor went

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    Motor went

    The motor on my 584 SAE whp SC S54 went the other day.

    The primary cause was the tip of a spark plug that broke off. However as we are going through the motor, we are finding power related damage.

    So while even though this motor was built, top to bottom (nothing outragous like sleeving or special heads gaskets though) my mechanics conclusion is that these motors were simply not made to handle such power loads (more than twice the stock power).

    I got 20K out of this motor and he said I should expect 20 K out of the rebuild.

    What do you guys think? Is asking a built high HP S54 to last 50-60K miles too much?

    I know my Mtzger based Porsche will get close to that, but that is a motor that was enginered for extrem conditions from day one

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    Man, horrible timing and just bad luck. I'm sorry to hear about it.

    What cause the tip to break off? Doesn't that take extreme detonation?

    In my view, you mechanic is incorrect saying the motor was not made to handle such power loads. Sure, in stock form you would be pushing it around 600 whp but on a built motor?

    20k is not anywhere near enough for what a top quality rebuild should put down. It makes me think more about the tune than the hardware. BHS did quality motor builds from what I understand.

    The Metzger is overrated but let's not get into that, a bunch of Porsche guys have lost their motors while simultaneously claiming how strong it is like Diveextreme.

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    The tip should not of broken off. Something timing/fuel related. You can get more than 20K unless you have crazy max RPM.

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    Lol funny, my car made 275whp stock, it makes over 900whp now. I push it hard and no issues...

    Definitely not going to get into it but there are so many more metzger motor's gone then S54's.

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    The car failed emissions a while back and I was trying to get the original tuner to work on the car, but no luck. Fortunately I know have a good tuner local to me (Jerry of Eurocharge) so the tune will be dialed in this time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    The car failed emissions a while back and I was trying to get the original tuner to work on the car, but no luck. Fortunately I know have a good tuner local to me (Jerry of Eurocharge) so the tune will be dialed in this time.
    Not familiar with Jerry but if you say he is good I take your word. Who is the original tuner?

    Are you just going to rebuild it to the same spec?

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    The original tuner was Oscar Valez who is in Puerto Rico. I tried many times to contact him/get help and he was non responsive.

    My friend, a certified BMW mechanic with his own shop who is giving me a killer deal on my rebuild (I personal train him and teach him Jui-jtsu, have him work with my boxing caoch etc) is doing the work.

    He is very conservative and wants to have Dinan tune the car. What do you guys think of that idea?

    This is my semi DD car that is also fast. my full on highway beat down car is my GT2 so I would not mind sacrifing some power for longevity/reliability.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    My friend, a certified BMW mechanic with his own shop who is giving me a killer deal on my rebuild (I personal train him and teach him Jui-jtsu, have him work with my boxing caoch etc) is doing the work.
    Now I understand the name.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    He is very conservative and wants to have Dinan tune the car. What do you guys think of that idea?
    Don't like the idea. Does Dinan do outside tuning anyway or is it something that he could make happen? I have never heard of Dinan tuning custom setups before.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    This is my semi DD car that is also fast. my full on highway beat down car is my GT2 so I would not mind sacrifing some power for longevity/reliability.
    This I understand as your GT2 is a ridiculous beast. I can not state that enough, you have one of the strongest cars on 6speed. So sacrificing some power for reliability isn't a big deal but the thing is, with the motor built right you shouldn't have to. I think it is all in the tune for your application. No need to push it beyond what is safe though, I see what you are saying.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    The original tuner was Oscar Valez who is in Puerto Rico. I tried many times to contact him/get help and he was non responsive.
    How did you get involved with this guy from Puerto Rico to begin with? Did he tune for BHS?

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    Yes, Oscar tuned for BHS....Eric got the motor apart today and the damage is extensive. He believes it was tune related.

    We have decided to go with a re-manufactured motor from BWM....he can get one for $8K. With the intake, headers, exhaust and other bolt ons and tuning it should make around 380-400 a the wheels. I will also get a really good stereo.

    Then I will convert it to my DD (save my C63 for the weekends) and put about 12K miles on her a year.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    Yes, Oscar tuned for BHS....Eric got the motor apart today and the damage is extensive. He believes it was tune related.
    I see, what did he see or what pointing him toward that conclusion? From what has been posted so far, it sounds like he is correct.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    We have decided to go with a re-manufactured motor from BWM....he can get one for $8K. With the intake, headers, exhaust and other bolt ons and tuning it should make around 380-400 a the wheels. I will also get a really good stereo.
    I see, so just low boost on stock motor? You are going to miss that power but I completely understand. I must say, you are taking that blown built motor in stride.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I see, what did he see or what pointing him toward that conclusion? From what has been posted so far, it sounds like he is correct.



    I see, so just low boost on stock motor? You are going to miss that power but I completely understand. I must say, you are taking that blown built motor in stride.
    Well, these things happen when you play with highly modded cars....the bummer is that I had been trying to get Oscar to help my with some tuning for many months.

    I only started working with Jerry recently.

    Actually, we are going no boost. This car will be a stock remanufactered S54 with only headers, intake, exhaust and tuning, no forced induction

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    the bummer is that I had been trying to get Oscar to help my with some tuning for many months.
    Exactly... this could have been prevented.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    Actually, we are going no boost. This car will be a stock remanufactered S54 with only headers, intake, exhaust and tuning, no forced induction
    380-400 whp? No offense, but you won't see that NA.

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    Thats what I said to my mechanic but he thinks we can do it. I will be happy with 360 as a daily. Remember, we also have a fuel system.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    Thats what I said to my mechanic but he thinks we can do it. I will be happy with 360 as a daily. Remember, we also have a fuel system.
    I wish you the best, even 360 is lofty but hey, I hope to see it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    I got 20K out of this motor and he said I should expect 20 K out of the rebuild.
    $20K for a S54 build seems outrageous. I had my long block built by HPF/M&B using a brand new standard bore BMW block, lightweight forged rods and pistons, ARP mains etc.. My heads are being built by VAC Motorsports with new 1 piece lightweight stainless valves, dual spring, full chamber profiling, blueprinting etc.. My price tag is no where near $20K.

    I think VAC build full blown race motors for about $14K. You could get a stage 2.5 from HPF, that comes with a fully built motor and 650+ RWHP for $26K.

    Sorry to hear about the blown engine though. Think of it as an excuse to go turbo now and ditch that wimpy S/C, I know I did.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    The car failed emissions a while back and I was trying to get the original tuner to work on the car, but no luck. Fortunately I know have a good tuner local to me (Jerry of Eurocharge) so the tune will be dialed in this time.
    You asked me once.. There isn't a good S54 tuner in Houston. Some may say they are, but there is a reason I went looking to OE Tuning when I had my S/C. Your engine failure was most likely due to tuning. There are only a handfull of people who can properly tune the S54 DME.. and none of them are in Houston.. or even Texas for that matter.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    380-400 whp? No offense, but you won't see that NA.
    Even VAC can't get those numbers with their full race builds. Maybe 350 whp in street trim with cams, TB's and head work.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    $20K for a S54 build seems outrageous. I had my long block built by HPF/M&B using a brand new standard bore BMW block, lightweight forged rods and pistons, ARP mains etc.. My heads are being built by VAC Motorsports with new 1 piece lightweight stainless valves, dual spring, full chamber profiling, blueprinting etc.. My price tag is no where near $20K.

    I think VAC build full blown race motors for about $14K. You could get a stage 2.5 from HPF, that comes with a fully built motor and 650+ RWHP for $26K.

    Sorry to hear about the blown engine though. Think of it as an excuse to go turbo now and ditch that wimpy S/C, I know I did.
    He was referring to mileage, not cost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Even VAC can't get those numbers with their full race builds. Maybe 350 whp in street trim with cams, TB's and head work.
    Exactly, I've seen a built race motor do 350... this won't be a race motor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He was referring to mileage, not cost.
    I probably confused previous conversations with the owner at a few local meets. Seems I recall him talking about how much money had been spent on the engine etc.. I remember the costs seeming a bit high but his build was done when modding was still relatively new for this platform. We all know the costs have come down quite a bit. I would say $8K for a crate motor seems pretty damn cheap though.. I wouldn't mind that hook up lol!

    I think he would be happier with a HPF kit haha.. probably be even cheaper. Going from boosted back to N/A, the car will get boring quick. The trunk is too small to make a good grocery getter ha!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I probably confused previous conversations with the owner at a few local meets. Seems I recall him talking about how much money had been spent on the engine etc.. I remember the costs seeming a bit high but his build was done when modding was still relatively new for this platform. We all know the costs have come down quite a bit. I would say $8K for a crate motor seems pretty damn cheap though.. I wouldn't mind that hook up lol!

    I think he would be happier with a HPF kit haha.. probably be even cheaper. Going from boosted back to N/A, the car will get boring quick. The trunk is too small to make a good grocery getter ha!
    He has mentioned he prefers linear boost in the car plus he already has a high boost built turbo 6 cylinder.

    I think he is just trying to get the car reliable but I agree, HPF would probably put a big smile on his face.

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    We are looking at a stock remanufactured motor from BMW USA. I commute/drive 300 miles a week, and that does not count the weekends when I play.

    My GT2 is pushing 800 rwhp on race gas now with a fat power band. I am hoping for a low 5 second 60-130 when the weather gets cold. I would need a stage 3 HPF car which would be $35K by the time all is said and done, and it would not dead hook from a 40 punch (even in cold weather) the way my rear engine GT2 with 315's does.

    Soooo I am thinking of turning the M3 into my daily driver/commute car. You couldn't ask for a more enjoyable commute car and even close to 350, with a really nice stereo would fill the bill.

    Oh, and yes, the failure was due to tuning. What would OE charge to do a remote tune? Can we data log?

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    I remember vac telling me something about a 400rwhp n/a s54. Not sure details or if it happened. There local to me so I used to go there alot. It might of been a fully worked race engine. I don't know they didn't say much.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    My GT2 is pushing 800 rwhp on race gas now with a fat power band. I am hoping for a low 5 second 60-130 when the weather gets cold. I would need a stage 3 HPF car which would be $35K by the time all is said and done, and it would not dead hook from a 40 punch (even in cold weather) the way my rear engine GT2 with 315's does.
    What type of tires?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
    Oh, and yes, the failure was due to tuning. What would OE charge to do a remote tune? Can we data log?
    Just to do a tune on a standard S54? Wouldn't be too bad, I would also check to see when Jeremy would be in the area as he takes tuning trips pretty often.

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