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  1. #26
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    I looked into it and it wasn't worth it to me.

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    all this looks very promising and exciting. i think the big question is: are we going to see an upgrade kit of sorts that takes care of turbochargers, fueling, compression, driveline and most importantly, a tune that works with all those pieces in mind, in a single package? it seems like we are doing the R&D ourselves. It almost seems like wishful thinking but maybe companies like AMS will give the N54 a look in the same manner that the evo X is. (sorry to go so OT, but consider the EVO and the power they crunch out of it; why is the n54 taking baby steps when the platform is such a popular one?)
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    Current:
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    Previous:
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    i think the big question is: are we going to see an upgrade kit of sorts that takes care of turbochargers, fueling, compression, driveline and most importantly, a tune that works with all those pieces in mind, in a single package?
    I think this is the ultimate goal for tuners and the first one to provide something like this will have a very special kit on their hands. We are still a while away from something like this though, it will come, just later.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    (sorry to go so OT, but consider the EVO and the power they crunch out of it; why is the n54 taking baby steps when the platform is such a popular one?)
    Direct injection and a much more complicated ECU. The EVO has open source tuning, we don't. Piggybacks have been laughed out of EVO scene (along with Vishnu... sorry, just the truth) since they have full control of everything. Also, until the new EVO which now has a different motor architecture, everything was the tried and true 4G63. That motor has had over two decades of development, from EVO's to DSM's to Galants. The new motor still hasn't caught up.
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  4. #29
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    You're right...
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    Current:
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    Previous:
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  5. #30
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    ive said this before and ill say it again older > newer
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    ive said this before and ill say it again older > newer
    Amen to that.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    ive said this before and ill say it again older > newer
    Except with women.
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  8. #33
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    here is my view on this.

    You have engine design becoming more and more advanced, every generation tries to outdo the last. You have engines today with 250 sensors monitoring $#@!, sensors to monitor sensors etc... Now you have a computer with MAJOR computing power to manage all of this, extremely complicated embedded software technology to handle a car with all these inputs.

    Now heres the question for all those wanting to do a motor swap on any modern car. What are you going to do with all the sensors on this car? Chuck them? You have yaw sensors for your suspension, differential fluid temperature sensors, spark plug temperature sensors the list goes on to the detail these engines get. Point is, you can swap a relatively new engine into an old car, but can you swap a new engine into a new car? How? I am genuinely interested, because the 135/335 platform dash console probably has more programming in it alone than an entire E30 or E36 alone. What are you going to do if you decide to drop motor XYZ into this chassis, the chassis IS built using a $#@!load of sensory input that has to be removed and controlled via some type of standalone that must emulate every single sensor to make them happy.

    edit: now throw in valvetronic, double vanos, direct inject etc... you have a cluster$#@! to try and decipher.

    $#@!, if you get HIDs the car throws a code. these new cars are NOT the same motor swap platforms we are used to. This generation is the most profound when it comes to internal combustion complexity.

    Next generation or perhaps the one after that will be a new form of locomotion, hybrid electric and eventually 100% electric and that is cake compared to ICE power. Shaft power via electric motors = pure uninterrupted transfer of electrical potenial energy to mechanical energy; nothing in between. That will mark the end of engine tuning.

    /rant off
    /more alcohol
    /end
    Last edited by DBFIU; 10-05-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Except with women.

    my wife is 4 years older than me, i aint complaining Click here to enlarge
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    ecause the 135/335 platform dash console probably has more programming in it alone than an entire E30 or E36 alone.
    This is exactly my point regarding swapping the S54 into the E92, too much electronic nonsense to deal with.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    here is my view on this.

    You have engine design becoming more and more advanced, every generation tries to outdo the last. You have engines today with 250 sensors monitoring $#@!, sensors to monitor sensors etc... Now you have a computer with MAJOR computing power to manage all of this, extremely complicated embedded software technology to handle a car with all these inputs.

    Now heres the question for all those wanting to do a motor swap on any modern car. What are you going to do with all the sensors on this car? Chuck them? You have yaw sensors for your suspension, differential fluid temperature sensors, spark plug temperature sensors the list goes on to the detail these engines get. Point is, you can swap a relatively new engine into an old car, but can you swap a new engine into a new car? How? I am genuinely interested, because the 135/335 platform dash console probably has more programming in it alone than an entire E30 or E36 alone. What are you going to do if you decide to drop motor XYZ into this chassis, the chassis IS built using a $#@!load of sensory input that has to be removed and controlled via some type of standalone that must emulate every single sensor to make them happy.

    edit: now throw in valvetronic, double vanos, direct inject etc... you have a cluster$#@! to try and decipher.

    $#@!, if you get HIDs the car throws a code. these new cars are NOT the same motor swap platforms we are used to. This generation is the most profound when it comes to internal combustion complexity.

    Next generation or perhaps the one after that will be a new form of locomotion, hybrid electric and eventually 100% electric and that is cake compared to ICE power. Shaft power via electric motors = pure uninterrupted transfer of electrical potenial energy to mechanical energy; nothing in between. That will mark the end of engine tuning.

    /rant off
    /more alcohol
    /end
    For some reason I think its easier to mate the new engine with another newer chassis of the same era...V10s into Z4s or E90s and such...it seems to be just a bit of dabbling in the electronic end to make them fire up and go.

    Mike Burroughs of Stanceworks put an S54 into his E36..and made EVERYTHING work...E46 gauge cluster, key fob everything. Everything is routed through OEM wires and terminals..no extra stuff stringing across the dash or engine bay. He said EWS was a bit of a pain to get working right but in the end he triumphed. Took him 3 years though.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Took him 3 years though.
    Not surprised...
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  13. #38
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    lol i just deleted my post and put it in the other thread. oops
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  14. #39
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    well.. i might be swapping pistons sooner than thought Click here to enlarge

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well.. i might be swapping pistons sooner than thought Click here to enlarge
    Why is that?
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  16. #41
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    recents posts in the N54 section

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    recents posts in the N54 section
    You $#@!ed up your motor?
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  18. #43
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    NO NO NO! Not me, but ive been trying to be pre-emptive in all this, hence this thread itself, and the other posts about fueling etc.. my car is fine.. a little wet from 3 weeks of rain here but all is well

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    NO NO NO! Not me, but ive been trying to be pre-emptive in all this, hence this thread itself, and the other posts about fueling etc.. my car is fine.. a little wet from 3 weeks of rain here but all is well
    Why would you refer to recent posts in the N54 section that deal with a blown motor? It was almost as if you were acknowledging it, your own comment is probably what led to it.

    Glad to hear the car is fine, really odd timing lol.
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why would you refer to recent posts in the N54 section that deal with a blown motor? It was almost as if you were acknowledging it, your own comment is probably what led to it.

    Glad to hear the car is fine, really odd timing lol.

    yea, i didnt see it that way until you guys started assuming. Very odd timing as well.. i guess i learned to start taking things slow and doing things right the first time after i dropped $5k on just swapping turbo's a few times and realized $#@! adds up quickly.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yea, i didnt see it that way until you guys started assuming. Very odd timing as well.. i guess i learned to start taking things slow and doing things right the first time after i dropped $5k on just swapping turbo's a few times and realized $#@! adds up quickly.
    That goes for both you and Dan...well not just turbos I mean. If only you were closer :-/

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Your cylinder head is optimized for a lot less whp than where you are and were you are aiming at. Increasing the flow of the head will be useful. Depending on the power objectives you should at least do the porting, perhaps also have bigger exhaust valves, then possibly even inlet valves and cams. Increasing the head flow capabilities makes your tuned engine healthier, so it is not clear that you even need to do an engine build.

    Lighter engine internals might make sense only if you decide to increase your revving ability by the other means as well, i.e. go with big inlet valves and/or cams, that enables higher revs and increasing the redline (should be possible by adjusting a couple of parameters by a flash tuner). In this case the lighter forged parts and less rotating masses will work nicely with the objective of high revs. With bigger turbos and head/cams to fit you are able to find more power by revving higher. Moreover, since you have more than enough torque to begin with, so there is really nothing to lose.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Your cylinder head is optimized for a lot less whp than where you are and were you are aiming at. Increasing the flow of the head will be useful. Depending on the power objectives you should at least do the porting, perhaps also have bigger exhaust valves, then possibly even inlet valves and cams. Increasing the head flow capabilities makes your tuned engine healthier, so it is not clear that you even need to do an engine build.

    Lighter engine internals might make sense only if you decide to increase your revving ability by the other means as well, i.e. go with big inlet valves and/or cams, that enables higher revs and increasing the redline (should be possible by adjusting a couple of parameters by a flash tuner). In this case the lighter forged parts and less rotating masses will work nicely with the objective of high revs. With bigger turbos and head/cams to fit you are able to find more power by revving higher. Moreover, since you have more than enough torque to begin with, so there is really nothing to lose.
    Just very well said.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I would look into balancing the entire rotating assembly, i.e. crank with rods and pistons attached to it...maybe knife-edging the crank a little bit? On the flat-sixes we used to send the crank out to have the counterweight edges slimmed down and the leading edge V-faced to cut through the oil mist, as well has chamfering the edges of the block around each cylinder to also cut down on turbulence. If you wanted to get anal, smoothing out the inside of the block, getting rid of casting flash and irregularities and providing a smooth surface to aid in oil return back to the pan.

    That list that you have is pretty well thought out. Ive been thinking it over myself to see what else I would do to an engine. The problem is with any change in port design or flow might affect the airflow patterns inside cylinder for DI. No one knows as of yet...which is why the heads have been left stock.

    I would really REALLY think you could gain a lot from just finding someone to make a tubular manifold welded to the OEM turbos...that little dinky log manifold has to be seriously restricting some good power.
    Stock turbine housings are a far greater restriction.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Your cylinder head is optimized for a lot less whp than where you are and were you are aiming at. Increasing the flow of the head will be useful. Depending on the power objectives you should at least do the porting, perhaps also have bigger exhaust valves, then possibly even inlet valves and cams. Increasing the head flow capabilities makes your tuned engine healthier, so it is not clear that you even need to do an engine build.

    Lighter engine internals might make sense only if you decide to increase your revving ability by the other means as well, i.e. go with big inlet valves and/or cams, that enables higher revs and increasing the redline (should be possible by adjusting a couple of parameters by a flash tuner). In this case the lighter forged parts and less rotating masses will work nicely with the objective of high revs. With bigger turbos and head/cams to fit you are able to find more power by revving higher. Moreover, since you have more than enough torque to begin with, so there is really nothing to lose.
    I would have to agree with all of this. Your moving a lot more air and the engine needs to breath, a good port job and valvejob would do wonders. I wouldnt touch the cams though, not worth the money IMO when hes boosting a lot anyway. Maybe he can do that last.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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