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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    it does. I wonder if thats why the plugs have been lasting at these power levels. Dan is going all out on 93....I need to bring a set of colder plugs to the dyno or else we gonna have problems :-/
    lol...yes I am gonna try and go all out on 93...pin the timing as far as it will go...im gonna attempt to crack 400whp on EPLs mustang dyno on just 93...

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    Water/steam has a great heat capacity (i.e., it absorbs lots and lots of energy with comparatively lower temperature gains). Steam has a heat capacity about twice that of air or CO2. This is a reason for keeping some H20 in the mix as the steam generated will keep cylinder temps/EGTs down while adding to cylinder pressures.
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

  3. #28
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    Keeping some water in the mix will definitely help with EGTs at the expense of power. Although we've never really done a good study of distribution through the manifold, and of course having a hardware safety working is critical. All in all when you're shooting for big power there are big risks everywhere. Especially at > 10:1 static compression.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Keeping some water in the mix will definitely help with EGTs at the expense of power. Although we've never really done a good study of distribution through the manifold, and of course having a hardware safety working is critical. All in all when you're shooting for big power there are big risks everywhere. Especially at > 10:1 static compression.
    i was just thinking this today..

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    If the meth/water is fully evaporated, it should be pretty evenly distributed as it diffuses as a gas. This is why fine atomization and injection position is key.

    If the meth/water enters as droplets it will certainly favor the center cylinders due to inertia of the droplets which could be disastrous for the outer cylinders (1 & 6).
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

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    I would think Cyl #1 would always be the under-dog

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    thats why we need an better intake manifold Click here to enlarge
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    I said it last year. We need a 2JZ type of manifold. Actually I believe HPF has the same type for the HPF kits for M3's. It should not be that hard to make one for the n54. The TB is FBW so an extended harness take care of that problem.

    The only delta is the intake routing due the new manifold design.

    As for fuel adder, I rather go with higher flow DI injectors instead of port injectors. But if there is no way then..... We have to deal with waht we have.
    But honestly I dont see how the DI cant be modified or build with higher flow rates.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DreX Click here to enlarge
    I said it last year. We need a 2JZ type of manifold. Actually I believe HPF has the same type for the HPF kits for M3's. It should not be that hard to make one for the n54. The TB is FBW so an extended harness take care of that problem.

    The only delta is the intake routing due the new manifold design.

    As for fuel adder, I rather go with higher flow DI injectors instead of port injectors. But if there is no way then..... We have to deal with waht we have.
    But honestly I dont see how the DI cant be modified or build with higher flow rates.
    if you look at the prototype HPF manifold, it looks as though they are already prepped for 2ndary injectors of some sort.

    Currently i dont believe anyone has been able to get/try/use larger injectors. I would be one of, if not the 1st to try them out. soo.. still patiently waiting..

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    if you look at the prototype HPF manifold, it looks as though they are already prepped for 2ndary injectors of some sort.

    Currently i dont believe anyone has been able to get/try/use larger injectors. I would be one of, if not the 1st to try them out. soo.. still patiently waiting..
    Do you know any shops working on the fuel limitation? The direct injection system is certainly a challenge to work with. Even stock the injectors have to be calibrated for the differences in the piezo actuation from the manufacturer.

    My first inclination would be to try to make the injectors from one of these work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N74 Are any of the other high output BMW engines using direct injection? The N74 is running at about 68HP/cyl stock vs. 50 HP/cyl stock for the N54 so it should be an improvement. Getting it to work with the ECU and 335 fuel pressure could be major obstacles though!
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DreX Click here to enlarge
    I said it last year. We need a 2JZ type of manifold. Actually I believe HPF has the same type for the HPF kits for M3's. It should not be that hard to make one for the n54. The TB is FBW so an extended harness take care of that problem.

    The only delta is the intake routing due the new manifold design.

    As for fuel adder, I rather go with higher flow DI injectors instead of port injectors. But if there is no way then..... We have to deal with waht we have.
    But honestly I dont see how the DI cant be modified or build with higher flow rates.
    The manifold isn't going to be what holds you guys back.

    I cringe every time I see 2JZ mentioned with the N54.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #37
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DreX Click here to enlarge
    I said it last year. We need a 2JZ type of manifold. Actually I believe HPF has the same type for the HPF kits for M3's. It should not be that hard to make one for the n54. The TB is FBW so an extended harness take care of that problem.

    The only delta is the intake routing due the new manifold design.

    As for fuel adder, I rather go with higher flow DI injectors instead of port injectors. But if there is no way then..... We have to deal with waht we have.
    But honestly I dont see how the DI cant be modified or build with higher flow rates.
    The intake manifold isn't the big hold up, it's all about the fueling.

    If the manifold really wasn't distributing meth properly we'd be seeing engine failures at the power levels people are running. Remember, the intake valves open sequentially according to the firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4. So only one cylinder is breathing at at time from a continuous flow of air/meth/water.

    I agree, that DI is the preferred route. However, I think we will be seeing secondary port injection before someone cracks the code on BMW piezo injectors and can source some higher flow versions (maybe from the N74 or S63 (x5m/x6m)). FWIW, the little bit of internet research I did seems to suggest that all BMW DI engines use the same HPFP fuel pressure. The ability of the HPFP to keep up with higher flows is unknown though.
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

  13. #38
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    so if thats the case. whats stopping us form having say single, or preferable dual nozzles. hypothetical situation here..

    CM 5, 7, or 10 in chargpipe, any usual location, but then a second injector, probably CM5, maybe larger, maybe smaller tapped directly into the manifold.. somewhere like maybe here?

    Click here to enlarge

    or even just a single in this location?

  14. #39
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    For fuel or meth/water? I'm going to assume you mean meth.

    For meth that location is a little close for comfort. As I said earlier, it crucial to have time/atomization for the meth/water to evaporate. Droplets getting to the intake runners could really screw you on distribution. All the droplets could end up in the runners for cyl. 3&4 with very little effect elsewhere due to the momentum of the drops as it enters the manifold.

    The ideal location for meth is right at the intercooler outlet. If you have two injection points, you need to have some run between them because small droplets will accumulate into big ones if they hit. You definitely do not want that!
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

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