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  1. #1
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    Leaded Race Fuel and your BMW

    it goes back to the other argument that v4 guys dont car about dragtstrip times, so they dont go, so the #'s are lower. Of those that have been, and posted, I cant recall any that did not use c16.

    Obviously the BMS users are more into it, and if you look for the same on N54tech, almost every thread where someone mentions c16, they are told not to use it.

    when i get bored ill find the links im referring to, i know ive seen them, a lot, otherwise i wouldnt be bring it up..

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    Anyone thinking of putting leaded racing fuel into their BMW needs to read this first...

    Q16 fouled PG's 02 sensors.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    when have you hit the dragtsrip though?

    If i take the time to proxy e90, im sure i can find and snip no less than 5 threads of different V4 users that have recently been to the track, and used c16. Including SHiv and StartupJunkie, pretty sure i just saw BallaJ a littlw while ago, and a few other random people.

    I have used it, it felt strong, but it also gave me problems afterwards, so its not worth it was all i was trying to say

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Doug007 Click here to enlarge
    Anyone thinking of putting leaded racing fuel into their BMW needs to read this first...

    Q16 fouled 02 sensors.
    Yes, we are familiar with what PencilGeek did to his 02 sensors. He also was running Q16:

    Q16 will work well in any drag racing or circle track application -- naturally aspirated, nitrous or blowers. Q16 is highly oxygenated, requiring a 4-6% increase in fuel flow, which will make 3-5% more power than competitive 116 octane fuels. Q16's oxygenation will significantly expand the range of air/fuel ratio acceptability, so performance will be more consistent and won't vary as dramatically with altitude or density changes.
    He put in Q16 and was not tuned for it. Since it is leaded and oxygenated, it will alter the air fuel ratio. This may have been the factor that contributed to him ruining his motor and requiring the rebuild.

    I ran C16, which does not have the affect Q16 does on the air fuel ratios, and my motor was fine as were my injectors and 02 sensors. Something to keep in mind, he tried to get too fancy without understanding what he was doing and got burned.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Doug007 Click here to enlarge
    Anyone thinking of putting leaded racing fuel into their BMW needs to read this first...

    Q16 fouled PG's 02 sensors.
    im not the only one that has had problems right after running c16.

    but i dont understand your post

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    Just don't mess around with Q16 people unless you really know what you are doing. An SC M3 isn't a vehicle that needs Q16 and if you need Q16 to be making power you don't have a proper setup:

    The C16 tune wasn't remotely close to the Q16 tune, and for me, it wasn't just adding 4-6% like VP said...As a matter of fact, I don't think the car would have even started spinning the rollers, let alone make it through an entire pull if the car wasn't completely retuned. That's how different the tunes are.

    Yes, the fuel is oxygenated and you have to burn more of it which is where the power comes from (nothing is free). The prices are similar to C16 but that's just comparing a gallon of C16 to a gallon of Q16. However if you calculate how much more you would have to burn, it actually cost a little bit more.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    im not the only one that has had problems right after running c16.

    but i dont understand your post
    He is referencing what happened to pencilgeek with his Q16 experiment.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think he referring to leaded fuel and issues with 02 sensors and clogging injectors.
    Leaded fuel has been shown to foul BMW O2 sensors to the point of failure.

    Bad idea unless you like changing out O2 sensors after runs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Doug007 Click here to enlarge
    Leaded fuel has been shown to foul BMW O2 sensors to the point of failure.
    It will eventually ruin the 02 sensors.
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    Another thing to keep in mind, different 02 sensors will have different lifespans:

    We use Denso 02's and they seem to have a pretty good life with leaded fuel. They have been in my car for awhile and my brothers Lsx car for 4 years with leaded and unleaded fuels.
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    evo guys run C16 fairly often without damage to their O2 sensors. Are BMW sensors different? I kind of assumed they both use Bosch sensors that are fairly similar.

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    You might want to stay away from Q16 unless you know what you're doing. It is oxygenated as others have said, that means it contains it's own small supply of oxygen, it's almost like a small nitrous hit. If the motor is not tuned specifically to use Q16 you will have big problems. The guys running Q16 are NHRA pro-stock cars and people trying to run 8s on 2 liter engines boosting 40 psi etc... It's not really intended for street cars.

    C16 is good business though, but you should still be careful when toying with fuels. Can't lose with MS109, it is plain gasolines closest cousin and pretty dam good race gas.
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  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    If the motor is not tuned specifically to use Q16 you will have big problems. The guys running Q16 are NHRA pro-stock cars and people trying to run 8s on 2 liter engines boosting 40 psi etc... It's not really intended for street cars.
    Exactly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Can't lose with MS109, it is plain gasolines closest cousin and pretty dam good race gas.
    I'm not even going to mess around with leaded fuels again, MS109 is more than good enough.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Side note to anyone that runs any kind (leaded or non) of race gas. Race gas is formulated with 0% petroleum oil in the mix, pump gas carries around 3%. It's there to lubricate and protect the more sensitive areas of the engine including between uses when the vehicle is sitting.

    We used to regularly see pitting of valve seats and chambers in 4.6L Pure Street and Factory Stock NMRA classes on spec race fuel, the damage was often so extensive the head(s) couldn't be saved.

    The solution was simple, pull the filter off and spray some WD40 into the motor at idle before turning off between races. Pitting gone.

    For those running race gas in their daily drivers I would recommend adding some pump gas to the mix (obviously compensate as needed for the desired level of octane) for this reason.

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