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  1. #551
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Whenever you guys are at the point for someone to test an INPA K+DCAN cable with the BB Open Flash, let me know.

  2. #552
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nguyenvn Click here to enlarge
    Whenever you guys are at the point for someone to test an INPA K+DCAN cable with the BB Open Flash, let me know.
    +1. Cable ready to go...

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    Most likely what will happen is the software will be posted for use with the microcan2 (aka BT cable) we've been testing it with. Then, it will be up to the someone else to figure out how it might work with other cables. Keep in mind this is open source software so anyone can open it an do anything they want with it. You'll have to be very careful with what you decide to execute on your car. The way it's been designed with the BT cable we all feel it's very safe and the chances of bricking an ECU to the point that it can't be recovered are almost zero. But, start changing the code, or experimenting with cheaper interfaces, and all bets are off.

    Anyway for those that want BT interfaces I put in a query to BT to allow sale of a single VIN unit. So you can datalog on up to one car, and flash as many cars as you'd like, with it. Unsubsidized would probably be in the $180 range. I'll update you guys when I hear from them.
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  4. #554
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    Sounds good Terry! Hopefully BT will allow it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Most likely what will happen is the software will be posted for use with the microcan2 (aka BT cable) we've been testing it with. Then, it will be up to the someone else to figure out how it might work with other cables. Keep in mind this is open source software so anyone can open it an do anything they want with it. You'll have to be very careful with what you decide to execute on your car. The way it's been designed with the BT cable we all feel it's very safe and the chances of bricking an ECU to the point that it can't be recovered are almost zero. But, start changing the code, or experimenting with cheaper interfaces, and all bets are off.

    Anyway for those that want BT interfaces I put in a query to BT to allow sale of a single VIN unit. So you can datalog on up to one car, and flash as many cars as you'd like, with it. Unsubsidized would probably be in the $180 range. I'll update you guys when I hear from them.
    this is great news, i'll likely pickup a single VIN cable from you once you have them available. thanks! :thumbsup:

  6. #556
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bryce Click here to enlarge
    this is great news, i'll likely pickup a single VIN cable from you once you have them available. thanks! :thumbsup:
    BT gave the go ahead and will be listing the 1VIN cables on their site for $179 at some point in the near future. Click here to enlarge
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    Finally dug this thread of up from NASIOC. After OpenECU (note the flasher was not open source, but worked with a $80 cable and reads and writes raw unencrypted BINs which is all the end consumers really need to care about) was released, ECUTek ended up locking out the flashes without notifying any end consumers so OpenECU couldn't read the ECU at all (they changed the challenge/response I assume, not 100% sure), but basically didn't tell any of the consumers. $#@! hit the fan. Ecutek and even Trey Cobb chime in. Trey made some not-so-round-about threats to Colby who wrote the flasher. I lost a GREAT deal of respect for Cobb for many years, but they seemed to back off and wouldn't back up the accusations. It was great stuff. All the commercial products took it right up the ass, to put it bluntly.


    Just some quick background, ECUTek is sort of like GIAC or Dinan flash. You have to mail in your ECU or take it to a dealer, but they were first on the scene for reflashing Subarus, and the tuners had to pay thousands to do it. Cobb came later with the handheld unit so the consumers could flash their own cars and get maps or tunes from professional tuners with ~$4000 tuner licenses, but there was no way to look at the tune, self-tune as a consumer, or exchange tunes. OpenECU came out years later, then after 6-12 months had better mapping of the tuning tables than the pro Cobb tuner licenses. Cobb had to release RaceTuner for free so anyone could tune their own car because people started using their $80 Tactrix/OpenECU cables instead of a $600 Cobb AP or having to mail in their ECUs to ECUTek tuners...

    Long thread, but if you have the time, I'd sgugest reading through the whole thread. Except some similar $#@!+fan activity in the BMW world if this all goes through...
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1027462

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Freon Click here to enlarge
    Long thread, but if you have the time, I'd sgugest reading through the whole thread. Except some similar $#@!+fan activity in the BMW world if this all goes through...
    Why? Cobb knows all about it and has no problem with and upped their advertising. Their world isn't solely N54 and it's not like people won't want the AP or to have Cobb tune.

    Secondly weren't you suggesting you don't know if this is free somewhere else? That cracked me up.

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    I think Freon has some merit in what he's saying. He also wasn't saying it was free, he was saying that open source is not equal to free, since the title of that thread was 'free ecu flashing' or something like that. His point is, you still have to buy a cable. But if you already have one, the additional expense to flash your car is in fact, free.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I think Freon has some merit in what he's saying. He also wasn't saying it was free, he was saying that open source is not equal to free, since the title of that thread was 'free ecu flashing' or something like that. His point is, you still have to buy a cable. But if you already have one, the additional expense to flash your car is in fact, free.
    ill be honest, if a cable for this software cost $80 I would gladly pay. $400 for a mickey mouse "tablet" no thanks.

  11. #561
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I think Freon has some merit in what he's saying. He also wasn't saying it was free, he was saying that open source is not equal to free, since the title of that thread was 'free ecu flashing' or something like that. His point is, you still have to buy a cable. But if you already have one, the additional expense to flash your car is in fact, free.
    What does he want? The ECU to just be magically flashed through the air? Sorry you have to do SOMETHING to interface.

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    Sticky,
    Why did I suggest people read it? Or why do I think $#@! will hit the fan?

    I suggest reading it because it might be of interest and show some possibly issues that will come along. Once there is an easy way to read out the raw BIN data from the ECU, all the commercial products potentially have their business gutted.

    If you read the thread it just reminds me a lot of what is going on now with Shiv.

    It's good to hear Cobb is handling this more maturely than when it happened in the Subaru world. As I said, Trey was pretty much threatening to sue Colby and claimed he had stolen proprietary data, but was unwilling to back any of his claims up. It's kinda silly since any reflasher product, commercial or open source, is stealing the work Infineon, MSD, and BMW did. They probably have tens of millions in R&D on the ECU

    Also, Sticky, I'm lost on your "secondly" comment. Perhaps you can be more specific.

    Anyway, seriously give the thread a read. It's kinda hard to follow which is why I wrote some backstory and explanation of what ECUTek is since they don't do BMW (that I'm aware). It's just an interesting read...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What does he want? The ECU to just be magically flashed through the air? Sorry you have to do SOMETHING to interface.
    ???? What are you talking about here? I'm completely lost as to what you are referring to in my post, and exactly what you are having a problem with.

  14. #564
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I think Freon has some merit in what he's saying. He also wasn't saying it was free, he was saying that open source is not equal to free, since the title of that thread was 'free ecu flashing' or something like that. His point is, you still have to buy a cable. But if you already have one, the additional expense to flash your car is in fact, free.
    eh, by that logic it's kind of like saying firefox isn't free because you need a computer to run it on
    Click here to enlarge

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    lol sticky

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Did I hear tom tom teamed up with vishnu?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    BT gave the go ahead and will be listing the 1VIN cables on their site for $179 at some point in the near future. Click here to enlarge
    Awesome. Let us know when it is up. I can't wait to order one.

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    @Freon, from the reading that I've done so far on that thread, I have deduced that what we are looking ahead to is COBB locking down the DME to protect read of the maps. I honestly don't care if they do that and don't know why anyone who respects the work done by others would either, as long as there is a way to know which rom type and rom version is on the DME so a stock/tuned file can be overwritten. They have every right to protect their IP if they wish to do so and I hope they do. This project is not meant to rip other tunes, its not coded to do that, and honestly, you'd be very unwise to try and run a tune on this platform from another car considering all the optimizations made to cobb OTS maps for instance are pro/etunes where they have created the tune for THAT CAR and its conditions, mods, elevation, turbos, fuel, etc.

    Someone is going to have to come up with their own maps and identify tables themselves.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    @Freon, from the reading that I've done so far on that thread, I have deduced that what we are looking ahead to is COBB locking down the DME to protect read of the maps. I honestly don't care if they do that, as long as there is a way to know which rom type and rom version is on the DME so a stock/tuned file can be overwritten. They have every right to protect their IP if they wish to do so and I hope they do. This project is not meant to rip other tunes, its not coded to do that, and honestly, you'd be very unwise to try and run a tune on this platform from another car considering all the optimizations made to cobb OTS maps for instance are pro/etunes where they have created the tune for THAT CAR and its conditions, mods, elevation, turbos, fuel, etc.

    Someone is going to have to come up with their own maps and identify tables themselves.
    So what your are saying is if you un-marry the AP from the car, there should be no problems, correct?
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    So what your are saying is if you un-marry the AP from the car, there should be no problems, correct?
    Exactly. If the car is un married, which puts it back to stock, then who cares if they ever put a lock on it. If you have to take your car to the dealer, unmarry it. I think that is standard practice anyway.
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    klips, yes that is possible. Dinan and GIAC may do that as well. If they don't already protect reading and flashing will be trivial to read out the Dinan map and pass it around on the internet.

    Obviously Cobb has RaceTuner so you can see their off-the-shelf maps in the "free" RaceTuner software, and it would just take some time to copy the values out of the maps. But their licensed Pro Tuners don't want their tunes and maps floating around. Professional tuners are generally very protective of their maps, especially if your tunes could be copy/pasted and posted everywhere on the internet. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Cobb already somehow locks this down so an open source flasher could not read the ECU back out until unmarried.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Freon Click here to enlarge
    klips, yes that is possible. Dinan and GIAC may do that as well. If they don't already protect reading and flashing will be trivial to read out the Dinan map and pass it around on the internet.

    Obviously Cobb has RaceTuner so you can see their off-the-shelf maps in the "free" RaceTuner software, and it would just take some time to copy the values out of the maps. But their licensed Pro Tuners don't want their tunes and maps floating around. Professional tuners are generally very protective of their maps, especially if your tunes could be copy/pasted and posted everywhere on the internet. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Cobb already somehow locks this down so an open source flasher could not read the ECU back out until unmarried.
    When your get your car pro tuned, your maps are calibrated to your specific car, with it's specific wear, at your location's specific environmental conditions and for your specific goals. A pro tune for one car might not work well at all on another car. The whole reason people get pro tunes is to have a tune customized to their car, so just copying a pro tune from one car to another defeats the entire purpose.
    Eppur si muove.

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    I'd definitely remove the Cobb tuning before trying open flash. I've not tried to read out a Cobb tune and have no intention of doing so. But they likely have blocked the read function with their flash and that is entirely their right to do. So we won't be telling anyone how to bypass that.

    Now on loading Shiv's maps, I honestly don't know what his thoughts are on it. Maybe he can chime in. He posted them as "open source" and I gather from that he doesn't mind if anyone uses them. But if he decides he does not want them to be loaded outside of his tablet that is certainly his right. I know there are plans for a big "open source" community here with facilities for map sharing, etc, so I expect there will be no shortage of performance maps posted eventually for all shapes and sizes.
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    If you have an AP would you even need a BT cable? You could just flash with the AP using the map made in this editor right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Freon Click here to enlarge
    klips, yes that is possible. Dinan and GIAC may do that as well. If they don't already protect reading and flashing will be trivial to read out the Dinan map and pass it around on the internet.

    Obviously Cobb has RaceTuner so you can see their off-the-shelf maps in the "free" RaceTuner software, and it would just take some time to copy the values out of the maps. But their licensed Pro Tuners don't want their tunes and maps floating around. Professional tuners are generally very protective of their maps, especially if your tunes could be copy/pasted and posted everywhere on the internet. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Cobb already somehow locks this down so an open source flasher could not read the ECU back out until unmarried.
    Nobody wnats a Dinan flash, so I doubt they should waste their time. GIAC has gone by the way side a bit, at least I haven't noticed them on the forums much, I do know they have done well at the tracks so I may have lost touch. I agree, the Pro Tuners are and should be protective of their works and small tweaks they make so if such a lock down feature were implemented(I know there are ways to lock the PFLASH/DFLASH down to a certain degree) then I wouldn't be upset as long as it wasn't like EcuTek's initial implementation.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    When your get your car pro tuned, your maps are calibrated to your specific car, with it's specific wear, at your location's specific environmental conditions and for your specific goals. A pro tune for one car might not work well at all on another car. The whole reason people get pro tunes is to have a tune customized to their car, so just copying a pro tune from one car to another defeats the entire purpose.
    This is my feeling as well. As soon as you've got people trading pro tuned maps here and there and then you've got inexperienced people modifying those maps, thinking they know how to tune, that's when you've got a blown engine on your hands. People trading pro-tuned maps and whoring them around would really be a bad thing not only for the pro-tuners, but it would be an infection to a certain degree, trying to figure out what good 'base' map is.

    If you plan on tuning with the open source flasher my opinion:

    1) Know what you're actually doing
    2) Get pro-tuned by someone who does
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