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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by unfor Click here to enlarge
    I can post about it, in limited fashion.

    Before my car even entered JE's shop, we were working on a fuel solution. there was no point in really pushing a Single Turbo without proper fuel, after all (meth doesn't count, nor is it as accurate). So anyways, JE worked with RC-E on doing a few installs for some shop cars of theirs. Naturally, JE called up RC-E and we were all talking. JE souced that injector and sent it off to RC-E to see if a bigger injector could even be made and to do some bench tests and whatnot. Anyways, the maximum limit is around 340 - 390 rwhp (no meth). As Laloosh mentioned, there is a HUGE drop in pressure around that point. HUGE.

    you may question, why a big range? It all has to do with the HPFP. That can't keep up with demand.

    Also, BMW put in certain "paramaters" from changing injectors that make it near impossible. Other companies have explored this avenue, but it doesn't work.


    got to lazy to finish post.

    isnt that a bit underestimating though? I have seen other people dyno/logs of over 400 hp, no meth and pressure still looks good, no?
    are you ensinuating that I, and other upped stockers, are way past our fueling capacity w/o meth?

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Ive played with fuel pressure a $#@! ton using hte standback, once you start getting over 400whp mark, the pump simply can't keep up wth the added requested pressure. You start seeing massive pressure drops in the logs. This is sign of the hpfp being out of steam.
    for once i disagree with you. at my 16psi/no meth setting i am surely above 400 wheel, especially at high rpm, and my pump has shown no signs of 'drop out'. i will keep you updated as i turn it up to 18 psi and 20 psi with meth and racegas if the pump shows signs of failure/pressure drop but i am confident my 3rd gen pump will be fine. the asr 1 has been running for years now and has run racegas many times, pushing 550wheel.

    edit: i guess LM and i think alike and this time unfor and laloosh are together on this one Click here to enlarge i agree the pump has a limit, but its above 400wheel, i'd say maybe 450 or 470wheel tops (on pump gas).
    Last edited by oddjob2021; 09-06-2010 at 10:40 PM.
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  3. #28
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    I didn't personally underestimate it. That was based on some bench tests that RC did. Its a conservative estiamte, so don't quote me on the exact range. But I can find out more for you toomorrow.
    And did you see pressure logs?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    for once i disagree with you. at my 16psi/no meth setting i am surely above 400 wheel, especially at high rpm, and my pump has shown no signs of 'drop out'. i will keep you updated as i turn it up to 18 psi with meth and 20 psi with meth and racegas if the pump shows signs of failure/pressure drop but i am confident my 3rd gen pump will be fine. the asr 1 has been running for years now and has run racegas many times, pushing 550wheel.
    Lets talk about this on pump gase, no race gas no meth.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by unfor Click here to enlarge
    I didn't personally underestimate it. That was based on some bench tests that RC did. Its a conservative estiamte, so don't quote me on the exact range. But I can find out more for you toomorrow.
    And did you see pressure logs?
    whatever info you have, i would greatly appreciate.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    whatever info you have, i would greatly appreciate.
    Send me specific Questions and I will post results tomorrow.

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    since i have no idea what im talking about, its hard to be specific.

    but basically, with no meth, 93 oct.

    what are our limits?
    how do you find the limits?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    since i have no idea what im talking about, its hard to be specific.

    but basically, with no meth, 93 oct.

    what are our limits?
    how do you find the limits?
    Ok I will shoot them an email now and post back tomorrow once I respond.

  9. #34
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    Ok this is what I was thinking as I read what you wrote...I'm assuming that you went ahead and monitored fuel pressure going into the hpfp right? You made sure it wasn't going to 0psi?

    Its common on DI diesels, especially commonrails to max out the stock lift pump (in tank pump that supplies your CP3, VP44, Standyne, HEUI etc) when calling for hotter tunes. When this happens, the pump supplying the hpfp can't send enough fuel up to the engine...and subsequently it cavitates, draws air, and causes a drop off in rail pressure.

    You did mention about trying to put a bigger in tank pump in and the car not taking to it too well.

  10. #35
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    I said one you start getting OVER the 400whp mark You start creeping on the limits. 450 you are out. Above that you are either pushing your luck by running leaner or you have a Meth system. When I was tuning ams' upgraded Turbo car....around the 450 mark the pressure would drop off on a bran new pump. You could make more but you have to do it running a lot hotter. When deciding the on the limits of a fuel system everybody has to agree on a target af that is considered safe.

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    Here is my response:

    "Justin,
    Those figures are a bit conservative. We took into account an "average" High Pressure pump. At this stage, who even knows what a healthy HPFP is. That makes it very hard, from a company standpoint, to give those particular injectors a flow range that is higher. The thing of it is, until there is an adequate high pressure fuel pump fix, the fuel numbers we give to customers will always be a bit more conservative."

  12. #37
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    HHmm.. sounds like we need some help then

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    Need new HPFP to push stock further or add secondary injection. Im doing the latter of the two.

  14. #39
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    so as it stands right now, the HPFP is holding us back since we cant push the injectors?

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    Thats the way it seems. However, who knows if the DME can handle new HPFP. When JE added a Walbrolo pump in tank, the DME forced car into limp mode :?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Its common on DI diesels, especially commonrails to max out the stock lift pump (in tank pump that supplies your CP3, VP44, Standyne, HEUI etc) when calling for hotter tunes. When this happens, the pump supplying the hpfp can't send enough fuel up to the engine...and subsequently it cavitates, draws air, and causes a drop off in rail pressure.

    You did mention about trying to put a bigger in tank pump in and the car not taking to it too well.
    There might be more to this, very interesting point. I wonder if increased volume or pressure feeding the HPFP would allow it to perform more effeciently. Of course this would depend on a tuner being able to work around the DME to allow the new intank pump to work.

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