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  1. #26
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    Some people can just never give credit were it is due. Let's
    see how VF build motors. Vf comment was not directed at you CC

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    I think ccsykes comments were more than fair. The guy seems like a conscientious builder, but ordering stronger parts when stuff breaks isn't in-depth R&D.

    Personally I found parts of the video a little cringeworthy (kind of like watching your chef taste sauce and then continue stirring with the spoon -- it really isn't a big deal, but you'd rather not know/see it).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Personally I found parts of the video a little cringeworthy
    Examples?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #29
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    Those cylinder walls are pretty thin. If I were looking for 1000whp i would go with the sleeved block, or a thicker walled block. Not sure why they do not o-ring the block or head.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  5. #30
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    There was absolutely nothing in the video that would prevent me from using that shop (in fact I'd be more likely to use them) and the cringing came from stuff that I know if a Cleveland-type fellow saw, they could launch into another anti-hpf tirade on m3forum.


    Examples: There probably should have been some discussion/concern about the warped head and acceptable tolerances before machining. I believe they had to take off .006" from the head due to warpage. I don't know S54 specs, but on a high-boost Supra that would be starting to approach the area where I'd want to consider straightening or replacing the head. The problem with machining a warped head is that the head is still warped -- it just has a flat bottom (meaning the cams now have to bend every revolution, the combustion chambers all have slightly different volumes, and the head now has a non-uniform thickness and is even more likely to warp in the future). In the real world 6 thou from the head won't matter one bit, but that is certainly fodder available for the "its an M3 -- it must be perfect" crowd.

    Other nit-picky things in the shop: setting a new piston down on a dirty tool chest, removing the main bolts completely one at a time (slight possibility of warping crank), using calipers that had obviously been mishandled (cracked digital display), etc

    And there were a few metallurgy mis-statements (e.g. calling ductile iron hardened). Again it doesn't really matter if your engine builder knows all about interstitial alloying as long as he meticulously follows procedure -- which this guy did. Going back to ccsykes' point -- it really wasn't any different than what you'd see done at any reputable shop so for those who've been around engine builds, it hardly seems vid-worthy. But Chris & HPF have a way of taking something relatively ordinary and packaging it in a way everyone loves. I'm convinced the guy could make a video about programming the radio seem exciting.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    There was absolutely nothing in the video that would prevent me from using that shop (in fact I'd be more likely to use them) and the cringing came from stuff that I know if a Cleveland-type fellow saw, they could launch into another anti-hpf tirade on m3forum.


    Examples: There probably should have been some discussion/concern about the warped head and acceptable tolerances before machining. I believe they had to take off .006" from the head due to warpage. I don't know S54 specs, but on a high-boost Supra that would be starting to approach the area where I'd want to consider straightening or replacing the head. The problem with machining a warped head is that the head is still warped -- it just has a flat bottom (meaning the cams now have to bend every revolution, the combustion chambers all have slightly different volumes, and the head now has a non-uniform thickness and is even more likely to warp in the future). In the real world 6 thou from the head won't matter one bit, but that is certainly fodder available for the "its an M3 -- it must be perfect" crowd.

    Other nit-picky things in the shop: setting a new piston down on a dirty tool chest, removing the main bolts completely one at a time (slight possibility of warping crank), using calipers that had obviously been mishandled (cracked digital display), etc

    And there were a few metallurgy mis-statements (e.g. calling ductile iron hardened). Again it doesn't really matter if your engine builder knows all about interstitial alloying as long as he meticulously follows procedure -- which this guy did. Going back to ccsykes' point -- it really wasn't any different than what you'd see done at any reputable shop so for those who've been around engine builds, it hardly seems vid-worthy. But Chris & HPF have a way of taking something relatively ordinary and packaging it in a way everyone loves. I'm convinced the guy could make a video about programming the radio seem exciting.
    Good points.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    With all due respect:
    We can agree to disagree.. I like HPF's.. I'm even considering dropping the coin for a Stage 4 since my business has been doing well. But if I wanted a track car.. I wouldn't consider a car with 30+ PSI of boost. They simply have to violent of a power curve for the track.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    We can agree to disagree.. I like HPF's.. I'm even considering dropping the coin for a Stage 4 since my business has been doing well. But if I wanted a track car.. I wouldn't consider a car with 30+ PSI of boost. They simply have to violent of a power curve for the track.
    Good points. I think a low boost turbo car can do great on the track.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Going back to ccsykes' point -- it really wasn't any different than what you'd see done at any reputable shop so for those who've been around engine builds, it hardly seems vid-worthy. But Chris & HPF have a way of taking something relatively ordinary and packaging it in a way everyone loves. I'm convinced the guy could make a video about programming the radio seem exciting.
    lol!! That was my whole point.. the videos were works of art no doubt about it. I've been building engines for 20 years. I remember before the days of CNC equipment... I've used a electric drill to hone my cylinders lol!!! The engine builder was a quality mechanic nobody is arguing that. However, I just didn't see anything I wouldn't expect from any machine shop.. I can find half a dozen in Houston alone that are just a good.

    Now if I had seen some serious custom machine work taking place, I would have had a different view. They decked the engine, surfaced the head, used a CNC to bore the cylinders with a TQ plate.. all standard procedure. The equipment used was pretty common in reputable shops these days. Again, there are BMW machine shops that do custom crank grinding, use custom sized rods and non-BMW coated bearings. Installing a sleeve to me isn't anything custom.. I've done it on a few boosted Hondas.. big deal.

    Again.. GREAT ENGINE BUILD! It just doesn't warrant a pedestal or altar.. According to HPF site.. the builds cost $3K.. To me that is an EXCEPTIONAL price for what was done. Most BMW builders charge three times that. That alone makes it a great build to me and a shop I would consider using.. just based on price alone.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    lol!! That was my whole point.. the videos were works of art no doubt about it. I've been building engines for 20 years. I remember before the days of CNC equipment... I've used a electric drill to hone my cylinders lol!!! The engine builder was a quality mechanic nobody is arguing that. However, I just didn't see anything I wouldn't expect from any machine shop.. I can find half a dozen in Houston alone that are just a good.

    Now if I had seen some serious custom machine work taking place, I would have had a different view. They decked the engine, surfaced the head, used a CNC to bore the cylinders with a TQ plate.. all standard procedure. The equipment used was pretty common in reputable shops these days. Again, there are BMW machine shops that do custom crank grinding, use custom sized rods and non-BMW coated bearings. Installing a sleeve to me isn't anything custom.. I've done it on a few boosted Hondas.. big deal.

    Again.. GREAT ENGINE BUILD! It just doesn't warrant a pedestal or altar.. According to HPF site.. the builds cost $3K.. To me that is an EXCEPTIONAL price for what was done. Most BMW builders charge three times that. That alone makes it a great build to me and a shop I would consider using.. just based on price alone.
    That is a good price.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    Awesome videos.. I love my Hpf car. its cool to see how Hpf builds there cars

  12. #37
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    Noone is ever happy. Hpf shares more info about there product then every other company.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Noone is ever happy. Hpf shares more info about there product then every other company.
    I agree.. I'm seriously considering making the switch. I've weighed my costs to go with a built motor, T-Trim at 18 PSI with a custom tune and in the end I still won't have what a HPF Stage 2.5 kit is proven to put down. I sent HPF sales an email..

  14. #39
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    I'm having hpf2.5 build now. That motor in the vids might be mine. I noticed there blown headgasket comment. My car had blown headgasket. Lol. Just call hpf and ask for David. You can almost always get ahold of him.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I agree.. I'm seriously considering making the switch. I've weighed my costs to go with a built motor, T-Trim at 18 PSI with a custom tune and in the end I still won't have what a HPF Stage 2.5 kit is proven to put down. I sent HPF sales an email..
    Not a bad idea.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  16. #41
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    You won't regret the switch. Low boost will still be good fir track. Maybe just have to be a little more carefull.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I agree.. I'm seriously considering making the switch. I've weighed my costs to go with a built motor, T-Trim at 18 PSI with a custom tune and in the end I still won't have what a HPF Stage 2.5 kit is proven to put down. I sent HPF sales an email..
    I think you will be happy with that decision. I have beat on mine for about a year now and haven't had one issue..knock on wood. Driven it in snow storms, rain storms and 100+ degree weather and never a hiccup. Plus, it gets down the road pretty quickly!

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