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  1. #1
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    Why no Gintani DIY kit?

    I realize everyone is allowed to have his own cup of tea, but I think it's time to pressure the Gintani guys to make a DIY kit!

    Everyone has some degree of concern over the reliability of SC'd motors, and most have high degrees of concern. There is no way of overcoming this concern without a good track record. That record won't come from just a handful of custom installs, many being different from the next.

    So, why don't the Gintani guys make a basic, moderate boost DIY kit?? No, I don't want them to make ME one - which I'm sure they can. I want them to market one so a crapload of users buy and install them - the exact same kit. Then we'd have good reliablity data on a constant kit design. Plus, you know there's money in it.

    I've seen the ESS VT1 kit in person locally (a miracle in itself considering where I live). I was impressed by its simplicity, but have yet to be impressed by its performance. Still, much can be said about the number of kits they have sold and I believe this is because it is just a simple DIY kit. It's no wonder they've sold a bunch of kits. Gintani is basically custom and VF (looks undesirably like something out of the old movie "Wraith") has been "working" on their model forever. Where's the options for the other DIYers?

    Now, if Gintani is going to be all esotericky about their SC's and only install at their garage -so be it. But that means less options for guys like me that can't easily get our cars to Cali. Hell, if I've gotta send (even the M can't drive over water) my car to Cali, I might as well get a stroker.

    On the other hand, if I had one, I guess I might like it that access was limited so that I can feel like I got the only Panerai on the block. But that's just not nice Click here to enlarge

    Now that's venting... Click here to enlarge

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    The do sell a off the shelf kit. It just seems so far most there
    customers are local. There kits aren't custom. They just offer a wide range of choices. There will be one in Philly area soon. I just hope this a legit question and not
    another ess troll. No disrespect but we have had trolls
    lately.

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    Why would you think I was a ESS troll? Didn't I just say that I wasn't impressed by their kit other than its simplicity. For the record, I post on M3forum and M3post under the same user name NatAsp-M3 and sciaenops (when I first signed up couldn't remember my password from my work computer so made another user and kept them both - it's obvious I'm the same person from my sig there) so you can check my trolliness if you so desire.

    I just haven't heard of anyone getting an off-the shelf kit from them and self installing? Is this something they have, but nobody has used? If Philly won't be the first one, can you give me the name of the user here or on the other forums that has done this kit? I'd like to know how it's going and what the specifics of the kit are - boost, etc.

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    Why would you think I was a ESS troll? Didn't I just say that I wasn't impressed by their kit other than its simplicity. For the record, I post on M3forum and M3post under the same user name NatAsp-M3 and sciaenops (when I first signed up couldn't remember my password from my work computer so made another user and kept them both - it's obvious I'm the same person from my sig there) so you can check my trolliness if you so desire.

    I just haven't heard of anyone getting an off-the shelf kit from them and self installing? Is this something they have, but nobody has used? If Philly won't be the first one, can you give me the name of the user here or on the other forums that has done this kit? I'd like to know how it's going and what the specifics of the kit are - boost, etc.

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    I was just saying. Don't take it to Heart. It just seems most people so far are local or
    close enough to just take there car to gintani. I've had to kits AA and hpf. My AA kit
    was installed locally and a good BMW shop and was mangled my friend had them install his hpf kit same shop mangled. My hpf kit was installed by hpf. Greatness intill I had my problem there's a thread on that. From my experience I'll never let anyone but the people who designed the kit. I'll look for the guy in Philly. I know
    his real name. Got to check his user. If your new here you don't
    understand how much trolls from m3forum come here and talk $#@!. That place
    is
    garbage. I'm banned for life for calling ess dynos bs.

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
    I realize everyone is allowed to have his own cup of tea, but I think it's time to pressure the Gintani guys to make a DIY kit!

    Everyone has some degree of concern over the reliability of SC'd motors, and most have high degrees of concern. There is no way of overcoming this concern without a good track record. That record won't come from just a handful of custom installs, many being different from the next.

    So, why don't the Gintani guys make a basic, moderate boost DIY kit?? No, I don't want them to make ME one - which I'm sure they can. I want them to market one so a crapload of users buy and install them - the exact same kit. Then we'd have good reliablity data on a constant kit design. Plus, you know there's money in it.

    I've seen the ESS VT1 kit in person locally (a miracle in itself considering where I live). I was impressed by its simplicity, but have yet to be impressed by its performance. Still, much can be said about the number of kits they have sold and I believe this is because it is just a simple DIY kit. It's no wonder they've sold a bunch of kits. Gintani is basically custom and VF (looks undesirably like something out of the old movie "Wraith") has been "working" on their model forever. Where's the options for the other DIYers?

    Now, if Gintani is going to be all esotericky about their SC's and only install at their garage -so be it. But that means less options for guys like me that can't easily get our cars to Cali. Hell, if I've gotta send (even the M can't drive over water) my car to Cali, I might as well get a stroker.

    On the other hand, if I had one, I guess I might like it that access was limited so that I can feel like I got the only Panerai on the block. But that's just not nice Click here to enlarge

    Now that's venting... Click here to enlarge
    You are 100% correct, Gintani is leaving a ton of business on the table as well as an expanded network. No DIY kits limit sales and expansion. This is a new company that is going to have teething issues and that is one aspect. Can they do it? I think so, but they are so focused on their new facility plus other custom projects so I don't think we are getting a basic DIY soon.

    They tend to focus on the so cal market. They also do things the guys doing the DIY basic kits can't, like my build for example. So... it is a more custom approach tailored to the customer and you can't deliver that in a box.

    However, no reason they can't do both. Gintani has a lot of things they need to work on and this is definitely one aspect, you raise a good point.

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    Are all ESS kits DIY? or just the VT1?

    cause I recall the VT1 has no cooling so its a lot less complicated.

    Gintani uses a watercooled intercooler so I'm guessing it has a lot more plumbing
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  8. #8
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    Are all ESS kits DIY? or just the VT1?

    cause I recall the VT1 has no cooling so its a lot less complicated.

    Gintani uses a watercooled intercooler so I'm guessing it has a lot more plumbing
    I believe all of them are actual kits you can install.

    Gintani should do a cheaper, entry level, non intercooled kit. Why not? Why let ESS have that market?

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    I don't see the point of it because then you get some people that think they can install their kit but really can't and then blame problems on the kit this has happened to ESS customers and other companies that ship a box full of parts. I think Gintani is better off building their dealer network and training those dealers how to install the kit properly they will reduce any possible issues. I also know they are looking into getting in house auto transportation for people that are far out and want a kit.

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    I don't see the point of it because then you get some people that think they can install their kit but really can't and then blame problems on the kit this has happened to ESS customers and other companies that ship a box full of parts
    True, but this is also why you have a network of dealers who can do the installs. If someone opts to do it themself without experience, they forego any warranty.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    I think Gintani is better off building their dealer network and training those dealers how to install the kit properly they will reduce any possible issues. I also know they are looking into getting in house auto transportation for people that are far out and want a kit.
    Definitely best to have a network of experience dealers install it but they need to be trained. Transporting the car isn't a issue, HPF does this all the time for people across the country.

    The reasoning still stands though that a DIY kit would expand the numbers and reach.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    True, but this is also why you have a network of dealers who can do the installs. If someone opts to do it themself without experience, they forego any warranty.



    Definitely best to have a network of experience dealers install it but they need to be trained. Transporting the car isn't a issue, HPF does this all the time for people across the country.

    The reasoning still stands though that a DIY kit would expand the numbers and reach.
    I guess it depends on what Gintani's ultimate goal is. I mean its obvious they want to sell as many kits as possible but I think if people want the best kit out there they should get it done where Gintani recommends (Authorized Dealer, or In house) and if they want to half ass it or save a few bucks on install then they can go to the "other guys" for that. I thought about it the other day when some one said ESS may be the best kit because they sold alot of kits supposedly. Well theres nothing wrong with alot of sales and congrats to them, but imo that doesn't prove much of anything regarding what makes the best kit. In my experience most if not all the best things in the world aren't the ones being sold in large quantities. I view ESS as the ROLEX of the supercharging world and Gintani as the Audemars Piguet of the supercharging world. ROLEX sells alot more and is def more of a household name but ask anybody in the know Audemars is still the best.


    Toyota sells a $#@! load of cars, doesn't make them the best at anything other then accessibility. Ferrari makes some of the best performance cars out there and are pretty bespoke which is similar to Gintani when it comes to customization. No one is going to tell me Toyota is better simply because they sell 100 times more cars.

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    . I thought about it the other day when some one said ESS may be the best kit because they sold alot of kits supposedly.
    I was about to make the Toyota analogy before I read you did the same thing, interesting.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    I guess it depends on what Gintani's ultimate goal is. I mean its obvious they want to sell as many kits as possible but I think if people want the best kit out there they should get it done where Gintani recommends (Authorized Dealer, or In house) and if they want to half ass it or save a few bucks on install then they can go to the "other guys" for that.
    I think it has more to deal with public perception as well as reaching more customers. For example, Europeans will be cut off without a kit or South Africans, etc.

    I would prefer to have Gintani do the work directly on my car, they are, but some people don't have that luxury. It definitely does affect potential sales.

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I believe all of them are actual kits you can install.

    Gintani should do a cheaper, entry level, non intercooled kit. Why not? Why let ESS have that market?
    Well I'm no handy man so everything feels difficult to me.

    but I feel its weird to have a charged car that has no intercooler.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    Well I'm no handy man so everything feels difficult to me.

    but I feel its weird to have a charged car that has no intercooler.
    For sure, no doubt about it, I would prefer an intercooled setup which is what I have. I would also prefer to have professionals do the install.

    I mean, hey, it is Gintani's business and they should do whatever they want to do but the goal is probably to make money.

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    I've seen/had kits installed by shops the were recommended and they still $#@!ed it up. I personally will just ship the car were it needs to go to be done right the first time.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    They Kit we offer is pretty difficult to install. We don't want people trying to install the kit and having them do something harmful to their car.

    But no worries we are going to be working on a kit that will be "entry level" so we can start shipping the kits out. We are also going to be working on making the available kit we have now, a bit easier to have people install it themselves. Many different applications are going to be tested and put to the test to make it possible. Unfortunately we're going to have to wait until we move to our new shop, which will be in the next month or two.
    Last edited by Raz@Gintani; 08-24-2010 at 02:05 PM.

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    at least we got info and update from gintani themselves! thanks

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Raz@Gintani Click here to enlarge
    They Kit we offer is pretty difficult to install. We don't want people trying to install the kit and having them do something harmful to their car.

    But no worries we are going to be working on a kit that will be "entry level" so we can start shipping the kits out. We are also going to be working on making the available kit we have now, a bit easier to have people install it themselves. Many different applications are going to be tested and put to the test to make it possible. Unfortunately we're going to have to wait until we move to our new shop, which will be in the next month or two.
    Awl-Right!! Click here to enlarge
    This is great news. There's no doubt a ton of people, myself included, would be interested in one of these kits. I agree that a "hobbyist" shouldn't be attempting these kit installs themselves -- but there are plenty of qualified mechanics that should be able to safely follow some kit directions properly. Please remember, it's easy to say you would just send your car to Gintani for the install ... but you're not 2,551 miles away ... over water!! Sticky's right, being able to send/drive your car to Gintani (or AA or VF or IND) is a luxury...

  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Raz@Gintani Click here to enlarge
    But no worries we are going to be working on a kit that will be "entry level" so we can start shipping the kits out. We are also going to be working on making the available kit we have now, a bit easier to have people install it themselves. Many different applications are going to be tested and put to the test to make it possible. Unfortunately we're going to have to wait until we move to our new shop, which will be in the next month or two.
    This sounds pretty damn good.

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    wish they had a shop here on the east coast so i could see how the car is..but soon enough hopefully Click here to enlarge

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    Ship it there. I really don't see how this kit can be any harder to install then AA or ess s65 kits. Not like they have something secert. Or even hpf but that's s54. Maybe I'm just s65 retarted but for people who really want this shipping a car isn't big deal but will add 1500-2500 depending on some stuff.

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    Raz

    Nothing is more difficult to install than HPF and even HPF isnt that bad, just a lot of removal and install. I just hope you guys do the same kit you did for the Pheonix yellow M3 S54! I love it!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Raz@Gintani Click here to enlarge
    They Kit we offer is pretty difficult to install. We don't want people trying to install the kit and having them do something harmful to their car.

    But no worries we are going to be working on a kit that will be "entry level" so we can start shipping the kits out. We are also going to be working on making the available kit we have now, a bit easier to have people install it themselves. Many different applications are going to be tested and put to the test to make it possible. Unfortunately we're going to have to wait until we move to our new shop, which will be in the next month or two.
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports Click here to enlarge
    Raz

    Nothing is more difficult to install than HPF and even HPF isnt that bad, just a lot of removal and install. I just hope you guys do the same kit you did for the Pheonix yellow M3 S54! I love it!
    Thanks! That S/C for the S54 is awesome, puts down some great power. We will definitely do our best to make the installs as easy as possible.

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    That's Dakar yellow. PY is the color my car. Still dakar is sweet!

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    Raz, looking forward to it! i will put my plans for FI on hold for now till u guys decide if you want to release the kit to the DIYer or overseas customers etc.....
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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