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  1. #201
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Have you tried running just a flash tune on your car, no piggyback? It may be crucial to report true load to the TCU but if its already slipping it may need repair first.
    No I haven't as yet tried just a flash tune...sorry, but can you explain "report true load", and how this affects the DCT?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ramjet Click here to enlarge
    I'm running well over 500wtq, but my DCT is slipping - desperate for a solution Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ramjet Click here to enlarge
    I'm running the JB4 with flash tune (all latest updates). Would love to hear more about a flash that increases the pressure of the clutches - I heard that this is being worked on but haven't heard of anyone achieving it. I hear quotes of the BMW DCT taking 600NM + but mine isn't, it is slipping.
    500 ft-lbs of torque is WELL over 600 NM of torque! Click here to enlarge

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    Interesting thread - however, I have to agree - this looks awfully suspicious/shady after reading everything I have read. I trust SSP even less now - regardless of if it's true or not.

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    0 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Njz Click here to enlarge
    Also, not crediting the SJL guy was for $#@!. Credit where it's due IMO.
    How did I not give credit to steve, have you not read the original post. I cannot thank the guy enough, he's a DCT guru and is one of the main reasons why my car is a beast.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ramjet Click here to enlarge
    I'm running well over 500wtq, but my DCT is slipping - desperate for a solution Click here to enlarge
    Thats awesome, are you slipping during shifts or throughout the RPM range?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge

    You've also been working on this since October 2012, there was NO attempt at documenting this or building any awareness -- Not a single comment or thread (even without pictures) was ever made.

    Well it's an apples to orange comparison. Drew & Sticky both attempted at running the older version of the discs, and here you are running the newer version/material of the SSP clutches (a softer material). SJL has also confirmed that it's not a 100% direct swap:
    Your still on me not doing a build thread?? you want pictures and videos, no problem I'll have them uploaded by the weekend.
    Actually the set I have in aren't the softer clutch packs. Those will be going in for testing later this month Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    We have tested many different friction materials in order to get to this result. The SSP clutches are a drop in application.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ramjet Click here to enlarge
    No I haven't as yet tried just a flash tune...sorry, but can you explain "report true load", and how this affects the DCT?
    The TCU receives information directly from the ECU, therefore all parameters in the ECU most be "true". For the the TCU to behave and for the upgraded clutches to work at its full potential this is key. I can tell you that there is a specific TQ ceiling, and that Dzenno sorted it out for me.
    Last edited by Serps; 05-08-2013 at 09:35 AM. Reason: fix

  5. #205
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    I have datalogged Serps car with my softwae and have datalogged over 800nm of torque load at the crank. We have done pulls in seventh gear from 1500-6500 rpm under WOT with no slippage at all. Again it all depends on the target torque value youre looking to build for.

    I am prepared to put a warranty on our service and parts. This is how much confidence we have in our setup. We will also be looking to further upgrade other components for even more output and 100% reliability.

  6. #206
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    I have datalogged Serps car with my softwae and have datalogged over 800nm of torque load at the crank. We have done pulls in seventh gear from 1500-6500 rpm under WOT with no slippage at all. Again it all depends on the target torque value youre looking to build for.

    I am prepared to put a warranty on our service and parts. This is how much confidence we have in our setup. We will also be looking to further upgrade other components for even more output and 100% reliability.
    Are you able to reprogram launch control?
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

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    Not at this time time no. Our main concern was to produce the numbers people are after reliably.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    I have datalogged Serps car with my softwae and have datalogged over 800nm of torque load at the crank. We have done pulls in seventh gear from 1500-6500 rpm under WOT with no slippage at all. Again it all depends on the target torque value youre looking to build for.

    I am prepared to put a warranty on our service and parts. This is how much confidence we have in our setup. We will also be looking to further upgrade other components for even more output and 100% reliability.
    Sounds great! Can't go wrong with a warranty. Maybe my f82 m3 will be dct after all Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

  9. #209
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    I am prepared to put a warranty on our service and parts. This is how much confidence we have in our setup. We will also be looking to further upgrade other components for even more output and 100% reliability.
    great news

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    Not at this time time no. Our main concern was to produce the numbers people are after reliably.
    Have you considered taking a look at upgrading the 6HP21 6AT? There is a growing demand for beefed up automatic transmissions as upgraded turbo kits become more and more popular.
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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    Next: GTS Wing

  11. #211
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Have you considered taking a look at upgrading the 6HP21 6AT? There is a growing demand for beefed up automatic transmissions as upgraded turbo kits become more and more popular.
    good point

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    Originally Posted by fastgti69
    These threads are getting better and better. Actually this whole forum is just kicking ass lately.
    I disagree.
    +1

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Have you considered taking a look at upgrading the 6HP21 6AT? There is a growing demand for beefed up automatic transmissions as upgraded turbo kits become more and more popular.
    Please do, this is likely the largest market at the moment. There are more 6AT owners in need than I could name here but the list is long.
    SYVECS Standalone l Motiv Port Injection with Fuel It Stage 3 LPFP l MFactory LSD l CFS Racing Radiator l m3 front and rear control arms l ST Coilover System Vargas Stage 2+ Fully Upgraded Turbos l Vargas Inlet System l VRSF DP | VRSF FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | BMS Trunk Meth l Nitrous Express Dry l Evolution Raceworks Charge Pipe with n20/meth bungs l Vargas HPFP Upgrade v1 l Agency Power Exhaust with n55 mid pipes l Apex AERO-7 Lightweight Wheels l Toyo R888s



  14. #214
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    I disagree.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    +1
    How so? You have to look at it in a point of view that we are getting more info now. People are being directed to this site as well as more options about a new DCT builder or at least someone that is smart enough to put one together correctly. I have to agree in some ways why I see you may disagree with me.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    How so? You have to look at it in a point of view that we are getting more info now. People are being directed to this site as well as more options about a new DCT builder or at least someone that is smart enough to put one together correctly. I have to agree in some ways why I see you may disagree with me.
    This is my own personal opinion but in the past week or 2 just the amount of bs and trash talking that has overtaken this forum seems to be a much higher level then normal. I was partly to blame getting involved in trying to warn people about John from HPFP, I should have just said nothing. But I have been finding myself closing all my forum tabs in my browser and not looking at anything so I do not get emails because I don't have time for the bs. But like I said this is just my opinion.

  16. #216
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    This is my own personal opinion but in the past week or 2 just the amount of bs and trash talking that has overtaken this forum seems to be a much higher level then normal. I was partly to blame getting involved in trying to warn people about John from HPFP, I should have just said nothing. But I have been finding myself closing all my forum tabs in my browser and not looking at anything so I do not get emails because I don't have time for the bs. But like I said this is just my opinion.
    In the sense of BS, I totally agree with you. Trolls are inevitable and bull$#@! will always spew in every forum. At least in other threads we are getting somewhere with info and progress. Anyways, no thread jack and we'll stay on topic.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  17. #217
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    I will say bull$#@! aside stronger DCT upgrades are required for the platform (and the M3) on a go-forward basis. It's nice to see parties from both sides "clear the air" if you will so those interested in upgrades can sort though the information to come to their own conclusion.

    It's also very clear that those running big torque levels ( > 450wtq) need the transmission to be aware of actual or higher than actual torque. Whether you use a dedicated flash tune for that or a piggy + back end flash solution. One nice thing about the piggy+flash solution is you can separate torque and load. The transmission maps on torque set point and torque actual. What I don't know on the DCT yet is how high you can map its torque set point and actual torque before it limps out. I'll be doing a lot of DCT mapping changes on a go forward basis to find that limit.

    Regarding "bricking" the trans. How is that possible with a clutch swap alone? Is the trans flash they are loading bricking it? And if so, can you then just replace the control module inside?
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJL Custom Auto Click here to enlarge
    This is something that will be reviewed in the next coming months. Obviously for me to set up the trans in the same manor as Serps, I would need the car infront of me. The mechanical part, for me anyway, is the easy part. This procedure isnt much different from the one we perform on the GTR GR6 trans. I build a full gearbox for those, with the necessary supporting upgrades required for installation and reliability.

    I would rather pay the money to rent a shop, fly you down, put you in a hotel, rather than having to ship my car , taxes, and dealing with customs back and forth. That is a nightmare for us if you are in Canada ?

    Hope your willing to travel if need be. You can use some tropical Florida weather

    Click here to enlarge

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    3 out of 11 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    This post by dzenno@PTF is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.


    Click here to enlarge

  20. #220
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    And there you go AGAIN propagating a stack in this thread...do you ever stop with your marketing agenda? There's no need to stack a piggyback to get this working. It already works, and works well.
    The stack on the DCT end obviously needs a bit more work. But thinking about it logically, the DCT really operates in a similar way to the steptronic. What we found with the steptronic is it has an internal mapping of line pressure to torque. Common sense really but early on it did not dawn on us. The higher the torque the higher the line pressure up to the limit of its mapping. But with the steptronic we have a situation where high load values give poor post-shift timing response. So the natural solution was low load high torque. A ~5psi set point but the DME thinks its making ~20psi worth of torque at that set point. This is only possible with tune stack. This gives good post shift timing and good line pressure. The DCT may wind up working out in a similar way. Where running more torque than actual improves its performance / holding power. On the M3 end as well this may be the case.

    I'm not saying your flash only tune need improvement or doesn't work. I have not seen enough data to determine that. But I have seen some instances of DCT timing flat lining. It's an area I'm looking forward to spending more time with.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  21. #221
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    All BS aside.. BS and drama draw attention, and evokes emotion, emotions create action, and action results in innovation..you have to look, and think, outside the box, ie more than just 1 thread or post..

  22. #222
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The stack on the DCT end obviously needs a bit more work. But thinking about it logically, the DCT really operates in a similar way to the steptronic. What we found with the steptronic is it has an internal mapping of line pressure to torque. Common sense really but early on it did not dawn on us. The higher the torque the higher the line pressure up to the limit of its mapping. But with the steptronic we have a situation where high load values give poor post-shift timing response. So the natural solution was low load high torque. A ~5psi set point but the DME thinks its making ~20psi worth of torque at that set point. This is only possible with tune stack. This gives good post shift timing and good line pressure. The DCT may wind up working out in a similar way. Where running more torque than actual improves its performance / holding power. On the M3 end as well this may be the case.

    I'm not saying your flash only tune need improvement or doesn't work. I have not seen enough data to determine that. But I have seen some instances of DCT timing flat lining. It's an area I'm looking forward to spending more time with.
    Grab this and see what's happening post shift Click here to enlarge You won't be doing that trickery with fake load any more...trust me..http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockAnalyserPro.aspx
    Click here to enlarge

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    If you want to monitor knock outside of the DME you don't need that contraption. There are already two very good knock sensors installed on the car. You'll want to use something that can trend them (e.g. not earphones) as they move very fast. Signals are on the large black subconnector positions 19 & 20.
    Burger Motorsports
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    I got this from a buddy of mine and it works really well. You can try your method too. Take a good look at what happens post shift. Then do the same on the dyno and run timing higher than MBT to induce a timing correction. The larger it is the easier it is to realize Click here to enlarge See what happens and compare.
    Click here to enlarge

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    To give you a little background, Steve and I have worked closely together for nearly 4 years. We began working together on the Nissan GTR platform. This business relationship has progressed into us working together on several DCT platforms. The BMW DCT is one of our current projects. We have been working on the BMW's transmission for over a year now.

    We have been working on Joe's 335 for about 8 months. We have not started and build threads, or released any information, because we wanted to make sure the new product lineup was tested and proven first. Joe's car was used to test several different clutch compounds. We originally started off with aggressive Kevlar friction plates, but now have settled with less aggressive material. Steve has also come up with some proprietary valve body upgrades. The BMW's transmission needs to undergo a series of teach in procedures after a clutch has been installed. This procedure is the key to making any of the aftermarket parts work correctly.

    There are several more parts that have been in development and will be tested in Joe's car in the coming months. Joe's car will be getting some of the new parts installed this month. We also give thanks and credit to Joe's tuner for making the car run flawlessly.

    I personally am tired of all the bickering back and forth. Joseph and I will come to an understanding I am sure in the near future. This will probably only happen behind closed doors. I am not engagnig in any further forum wars. If Joseph wants to keep going, that is on him. Joseph when you are serious about figuring you car out, give me a call. Your transmission can be easily made to work correctly. I can tell you that your issue is not due to backward clutch plates, installation errors, and or anthing else that has been stated. I only wanted to "bow out" because your car has been in your posession for over 1 1/2 years. During this time we have heard nothing from you and your engine builder. We invested a ton of money in parts, R&D, vehicle transportation, and got nothing in return. Yes you may have been giving us forum coverage, but what we really needed to know is how these new developed parts were going to perform. You have to understand that we invested time and money into this project, as you have invested your advertising time. At the time of your email, I was pretty upset that we have heard nothing from you in 1 1/2 years, and then all of a sudden, the transmission is not running correctly.

    Well maybe I said a few things that I shouldn't have, but most people do when they are upset. The ball is in your court on how you want to move forward.

    Our only goal from day one is to produce a product that supports high horsepower and is reliable for the BMW community.

    Kris

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