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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    The paperwork they provided says that the injectors were coded. I would assume replacing all 6 without coding would cause the car to throw codes.
    Depends on how different the calibrations values were compared to the old injectors I would think. It's good they coded them. One less thing to worry about. Just try to log a few WOT runs now that the adaptations have been reset, and go from there. I would do about three or so to allow the car to adapt after clearing all of the adaptations. It will have to adapt a little, but what you were seeing before was unreasonable and counterproductive (LTFTs minimum, STFTs maximum)
    Eppur si muove.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    Depends on how different the calibrations values were compared to the old injectors I would think. It's good they coded them. One less thing to worry about. Just try to log a few WOT runs now that the adaptations have been reset, and go from there. I would do about three or so to allow the car to adapt after clearing all of the adaptations. It will have to adapt a little, but what you were seeing before was unreasonable and counterproductive (LTFTs minimum, STFTs maximum)
    I like the coding idea. Seems like an easy thing for me to just double check and eliminate as a potential cause of these problems. I just need to get an inspection mirror and I think I should be able to see the values on the injectors while installed.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    I like the coding idea. Seems like an easy thing for me to just double check and eliminate as a potential cause of these problems. I just need to get an inspection mirror and I think I should be able to see the values on the injectors while installed.
    That is true. Just because someone wrote on a piece of paper it was done doesn't mean it was done at all, or done correctly for that matter.
    Eppur si muove.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    That is true. Just because someone wrote on a piece of paper it was done doesn't mean it was done at all, or done correctly for that matter.
    No logs today, but I did get the injector info. Nothing is standing out to me. While I was doing that I double checked all the spark plugs and they looked fine.

    Values on Injectors:
    Front of Car
    #1: 572 / 236
    #2: 583 / 218
    #3: 573 / 210
    #4: 582 / 239
    #5: 570 / 211
    #6: 573 / 210
    Rear of Car

    And the info from INPA. My understanding is that there is rounding the system does even after you input the values which explains why they are a but off. Thoughts?

    Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    No logs today, but I did get the injector info. Nothing is standing out to me. While I was doing that I double checked all the spark plugs and they looked fine.

    Values on Injectors:
    Front of Car
    #1: 572 / 236
    #2: 583 / 218
    #3: 573 / 210
    #4: 582 / 239
    #5: 570 / 211
    #6: 573 / 210
    Rear of Car

    And the info from INPA. My understanding is that there is rounding the system does even after you input the values which explains why they are a but off. Thoughts?

    Click here to enlarge
    values are fine and yes it rounds them automatically
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  6. #56
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    Here are the new logs. Car has about 2 hours of run time on it since clearing all adaptations. I loaded the Cobb Stage 0 map to confirm this is not a map issue and I think these logs pretty much confirm that. Probably no point in datalogging a hotter map at this point.

    All logs were done with traction control 100% off. I double checked and during all those throttle closures the throttle position is still at WOT.

    I logged lambda req also, and the car looks like it is requesting an appropriate lambda but the car is clearly not hitting the target.

    Attached data for the HPFP and LPFP logging. Nothing stands out to me, unless the requested fuel is just way off and inappropriately low to achieve a decent AFR.

    Looks like resetting adaptations wasn't the ticket. Sigh Click here to enlarge

    My only troubleshooting thoughts from here are to put on all my Stage 2+ mods (FMIC, Forge DV, catless DPs, Injen Intake) in hopes that one of the stock parts is doing this, but that just seems really unlikely.

    3rd Gear with Fuel Trims
    Click here to enlarge

    3rd Gear Default logging
    Click here to enlarge

    2nd - 3rd Gear Default logging
    Click here to enlarge
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by stangorang; 06-13-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  7. #57
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    Looks like LTFT wasn't reset... have to use INPA AFAIK (maybe BT can also).

  8. #58
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    If you are using Cobb to reset the ecu/adaptations - use INPA instead. I have found the Cobb ECU reset function to be very unreliable.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    If you are using Cobb to reset the ecu/adaptations - use INPA instead. I have found the Cobb ECU reset function to be very unreliable.
    Used INPA to reset the adaptions, and the BT tool to reset the ECU. Cobb can also reset the ECU but I went with the BT tool.

    As far as I know there is no "LTFT" adaptation to reset. The list of adaptations I know of is below. Can someone direct me to where reset this LTFT? I reset almost all of the ones below.


    Idle Comparison
    Knock
    Lambda Probe
    Tank Vent
    Intake Pipe
    DKP - Throttle
    Lambda Control
    EGR
    Load Control
    Nox-Sensor
    Secondary Air
    Fuel Control Valve
    Octane Number
    Variants
    VVT
    VANOS
    Segment Time
    Combustion Controller
    Cylinder Sync for EOL-Check
    Rough Running Cyl Sync
    Lambda Phaseshift
    Injector Energy Comparison

  10. #60
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    Has the dealer replaced all the injectors yet? I re-read the whole thread but didn't see if they made things right yet.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Has the dealer replaced all the injectors yet? I re-read the whole thread but didn't see if they made things right yet.
    Yep, they confirmed they were replaced.

    Apparently the boxes the injectors come in have a different part number than the part number stamped on the injectors. This was confirmed on the other forums when someone purchased the latest injector and found the discrepancy.

    I am shocked the car isn't throwing a code. It doesn't make sense.

  12. #62
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Pulled so more data from INPA. May or may not be useful, but maybe someone knows what to do with it Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    Car was not running when I grabbed this data so I assume it probably makes most of it useless.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  13. #63
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    Mixture one is the one for ltft
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    Mixture one is the one for ltft
    I agree, but nothing in INPA specifically says "mixture adaptation" reset. I assume it is one of the ones labeled with lambda.

    Terry@BMS took a shot at diagnosing the issue. He changed the fuel scaler on the Stage 0 map to 1.2

    Logs are below. Improvement seen in the AFRs, and now a bunch of throttle closures.

    I logged MAF for the first time (not plotted, but log is attached) and noticed that the requested and actual are pretty far off during the initial part of the pull when I was seeing those AFRs rise as high at 17.

    I still think this is a hardware issue, im just not sure how this latest info helps make the diagnosis.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    This may be a long shot, but what if some crud fell into the fitting on the injectors or the fuel rail? Depending on where the hypothetical blockage is at, high pressure fuel would still reach targets, but fuel flow into the cylinder would be reduced. Would it be possible for you to log injector pulse width for all six cylinders, with trims too on a scaler of 1.0?

    We would need a log to compare it to, but I'm away from my computer this weekend.
    Eppur si muove.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    This may be a long shot, but what if some crud fell into the fitting on the injectors or the fuel rail? Depending on where the hypothetical blockage is at, high pressure fuel would still reach targets, but fuel flow into the cylinder would be reduced. Would it be possible for you to log injector pulse width for all six cylinders, with trims too on a scaler of 1.0?

    We would need a log to compare it to, but I'm away from my computer this weekend.
    Sure I can do that.

    I guess it is possible something got in there. I think the main fuel rail is removed during the valve cover gasket replacement.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    I think the main fuel rail is removed during the valve cover gasket replacement.
    It definitely is. As are the individual high pressure fuel lines to each injector.
    Eppur si muove.

  18. #68
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    I took the stock map and changed the fuel scalars (at all loads) to 1.20 and disabled lean spool. If that helped then next I'd try the same changes on whatever off the shelf Cobb map you were running that worked fine otherwise.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I took the stock map and changed the fuel scalars (at all loads) to 1.20 and disabled lean spool. If that helped then next I'd try the same changes on whatever off the shelf Cobb map you were running that worked fine otherwise.
    So you added 20% more fuel, correct? I'm not saying tuning can't over come the problem, but why does this particular engine want so much more fuel?
    Eppur si muove.

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    So you added 20% more fuel, correct? I'm not saying tuning can't over come the problem, but why does this particular engine want so much more fuel?
    Who knows. Maybe his injectors are miscoded, maybe some hardware issue, maybe a faulty o2 sensor reading, or maybe rescaling the trims have not corrected a thing. But if fudging the scalar fixes it and the car otherwise runs normally, logs look clean, etc, I'd probably not waste too much of my time worrying about it until whatever is wrong gets worse enough to become obvious.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I took the stock map and changed the fuel scalars (at all loads) to 1.20 and disabled lean spool. If that helped then next I'd try the same changes on whatever off the shelf Cobb map you were running that worked fine otherwise.

    So my understanding of lean spool is that it is used to hit boost targets under high load low RPM conditions, correct? Could this be a boost leak masquerading as lean condition?

    I looked through the logs again and am not really seeing evidence of a boost leak, at least when looking at Boost req vs Boost mean. I am not really sure how to interpret the WGDC though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Who knows. Maybe his injectors are miscoded, maybe some hardware issue, maybe a faulty o2 sensor reading, or maybe rescaling the trims have not corrected a thing. But if fudging the scalar fixes it and the car otherwise runs normally, logs look clean, etc, I'd probably not waste too much of my time worrying about it until whatever is wrong gets worse enough to become obvious.

    Injectors were coded correctly, I checked that earlier this week.

    Faulty O2 sensors should throw a code, as far as I know, and I have never had a code during this ordeal.

    This car makes me want to bash my head in Click here to enlarge

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    So my understanding of lean spool is that it is used to hit boost targets under high load low RPM conditions, correct? Could this be a boost leak masquerading as lean condition?

    I looked through the logs again and am not really seeing evidence of a boost leak, at least when looking at Boost req vs Boost mean. I am not really sure how to interpret the WGDC though.
    Just a mode that leans out the air/fuel ratio to increase EGT during spool, which should improve boost response. Nothing to do with boost leaks or boost control. Anyway, load up your normal map, reset the scalar, disable lean spool (it probably already is in Cobb OTS maps), and evaluate.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stangorang Click here to enlarge
    Injectors were coded correctly, I checked that earlier this week.

    Faulty O2 sensors should throw a code, as far as I know, and I have never had a code during this ordeal.

    This car makes me want to bash my head in Click here to enlarge
    As I said if the scalar fixes it then I wouldn't worry much about it. It's just a car. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Who knows. Maybe his injectors are miscoded, maybe some hardware issue, maybe a faulty o2 sensor reading, or maybe rescaling the trims have not corrected a thing. But if fudging the scalar fixes it and the car otherwise runs normally, logs look clean, etc, I'd probably not waste too much of my time worrying about it until whatever is wrong gets worse enough to become obvious.
    I definitely agree that whatever the problem is, it does not yet see bad enough for the DME to throw a code.

    Have we seen logs of timing corrections for each cylinder yet?
    Eppur si muove.

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