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Thread: "Auto Tuning"

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    "Auto Tuning"

    So what exactly is it? What's the difference between the DME's ability to "adapt" and "Auto Tuning"?
    Will BMS be doing something similar with their new board? If so What will BMS auto tuning do to set them apart from the competition?

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    I don't think BMS is going to be doing auto-tuning but we still don't know all the specs on the next gen board.

    It is a good question and in theory auto-tuning should provide you with the optimal setup at all times. Does it? I don't know, but Shiv had some nice results at the strip with it.

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    i dont believe in it personally, but im sure it will be added as an option. Thats all im going to say as any other comments will be written off and disregarded as fanboi'isms

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    Autotuning as implemented is effectively globally ranging boost based on DME timing advance. If the car can take higher advance you continue to increase boost until timing starts to drop. You call the target drop "aggression" and increase boost until timing is say 3 degrees lower than max, or 4 degrees lower than max, etc. It's a simplistic but effective system and I've wanted to implement something similar for some time but have never had timing advance available to the JB3. With the new board we'll have that data and a whole lot more. And have already hashed out some pretty good self tuning algorithms to build upon the PWM boost ranging (mod detection) we've always had.

    In terms of advantages at the strip, there are absolutely none when on race gas and/or meth. In that situation you want to just max boost out manually with a map selection. Where "autotuning" really comes in is on pump gas on the street. In practice don't expect miracles as the DME already auto-ranges timing for you continuously so you're always close to the max threshold if boost is in the neighborhood. But it will prevent users from say running map 7 on 91 octane and wondering where the performance went.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    In terms of advantages at the strip, there are absolutely none when on race gas and/or meth. In that situation you want to just max boost out manually with a map selection.
    Why? Why wouldn't this already be accounting for the race gas and maxing out boost? Isn't everything supposed to be auto set for max performance, at least in theory?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why? Why wouldn't this already be accounting for the race gas and maxing out boost? Isn't everything supposed to be auto set for max performance, at least in theory?
    When you know the race gas is in the tank, or have a hardwire meth safety telling the tune meth is flowing properly, there is plenty of octane on tap to max out boost and the timing curve. No need to waste several runs letting the tune learn something you already know... You can leave timing advance monitoring active to flash an SES light as knock warning light, etc, though without much trouble.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    When you know the race gas is in the tank, or have a hardwire meth safety telling the tune meth is flowing properly, there is plenty of octane on tap to max out boost and the timing curve. No need to waste several runs letting the tune learn something you already know... You can leave timing advance monitoring active to flash an SES light as knock warning light, etc, though without much trouble.
    I see, but both will end up in the same place then just that if you set it manually you are not waiting for the adjustment. Right?

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    Yes. I guess he posts that because you will save yourself a run or two for the Autotune to learn exactly where you already know you should be at. Now if you are mixing octanes or not runing high concentrations of meth, the autotune will be your best bet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I see, but both will end up in the same place then just that if you set it manually you are not waiting for the adjustment. Right?
    On race gas/meth, correct. I should add we have an algorithm in the JB3 to adjust the boost target based on duty cycle, something I'm sure "the other guys" will add soon. As just because the timing curve allows you to crank boost up to 20psi doesn't mean its safe to do so from a hardware perspective. You also need to gauge how hard the compressors are working via the stabilized solenoid duty cycle and take that in to account. Anyway my only point being this is pretty simple straight forward stuff and there is much room for improvements.

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    I disagree that autoruning on Meth and race gas is useless. People like me who don't have full bolt ons will not be able to run identical boost to a car with full bolts while maintaining Max timing. So autotuning is very useful to me. Pre autotuning days my best traps always came from playing with setting and getting the best timing curve at the highest boost. BTW Terry saying g the other guys will copy something is funny. Why even say that when he is slowly turning his tune into a procede?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    BTW Terry saying g the other guys will copy something is funny. Why even say that when he is slowly turning his tune into a procede?
    He's slowly adopting some Procede feature sets, no denying it. He is probably right though, which goes to show, there will be copying from both camps.

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    It works fantastic, I love the feature. Conditions are always changing... in the past i'd adjust boost/ign.correction very often now it's done all on it's own all the time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    I disagree that autoruning on Meth and race gas is useless. People like me who don't have full bolt ons will not be able to run identical boost to a car with full bolts while maintaining Max timing. So autotuning is very useful to me. Pre autotuning days my best traps always came from playing with setting and getting the best timing curve at the highest boost. BTW Terry saying g the other guys will copy something is funny. Why even say that when he is slowly turning his tune into a procede?

    so your saying your not currently running the same amount of boost you used to when racing? how much boost were you pushing before autotune, and how much ar you pushing now?

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    What I'm saying is that pre autotuning I would datalog and change settings based on what I saw. Some were to conservative others were too hot even for race gas. I would get my best trap after I found the correct t psi for that day and conditions. Now I don't do any of that. For my car I would play bran 17.5-18.5 paid on Meth and race gas. Tiny changes kept gaining power untilled I saw timing drop...then I'd back it off. Like I said...now I line up and floor the car.


    You know his You have been driving 20 min out to datalog at night to dial in your DD tune? Well when it hot in the middle of the day that tune and your boost changes. So you just dataloged and set up your car for that night and other similar nights....the rest is useless unless you constantly datalog things.

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    so once you had racefuel and meth flowing, what changes did you have to make?

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    Didn't I just tell you? I would play with boost untilled timing started to drop and then I would back off. Max boost I used changed as conditions changed. I datalogged everything. Now I don't even follow it cause after I checked up on the autotuning to see what's its doing....it does exactly what I do. I just change the Max boost I want to see if I'm at the track or street. My goal is always Max timing at xx psi....this is set by the user adjustable aggression level.

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    and how much boost are you seeing now using autotune?

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    Never had race gas in it with autotuning on Meth I see a flat line of 16.8 psi everytime I update maps. My ign correction is 0 and my timing stays above 9 degrees through a 4 gear pull with aggression at 1.5.

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    so with racefuel, would you assume that autotune is going to bump the booost up?

    and i havent logged a DD tune in weeks, specific events are requiring extra attention

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    With racefuel I will bump up the Max boost I want my car to hit. If my conditions are met, the autotunning will bump the boost up with timing remaining at near stock levels.

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    where do you think that boost will top out at/where will you set it at?

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    I will limit it to 19 Psi and based on my safe preset aggression levels it will hit 19 unless it goes past the aggression level, at that point it will hit something below 19 psi. Your guess is as good as mine. It will vary by Meth mixture, race gas octane and mixture, and weather. Either way I would come up with the same setting manually however with autotuning I don't need to log and go over everything myself. Read the thread Shiv made tittled autoning basics. It was posted on e90 by Shiv on 8/12.

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    i cant read over there from here Click here to enlarge

    how do you KNOW its doing what its supposed to if you dont log it to check on it, arent you going to log races anyway?

    your really gonna push 19psi on stockers? i would have figured you would want to hit in the 17.5-18.5 boost range (again) or is that what your hoping to target anway by inputting the 19psi? why would it go past the aggression level? what happens if it does?

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    I'm on a Droid and not getting into this discussion right now LOL. Proxy your ass to e90 and read the tuning thread.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    With racefuel I will bump up the Max boost I want my car to hit. If my conditions are met, the autotunning will bump the boost up with timing remaining at near stock levels.
    OK, that makes sense and is a good way to do it.

    So you can set any max boost number you want really and if it is safe/possible it will hit it?

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