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    ESS S3 E92 M3 vs Weistec S3 C63 BS

    I was wondering the outcome of this matchup after reading and seeing the vids from Drew's stage 3 vs a stage 2 ESS M3 and the Weistec S2 C63 vs ESS S2 M3. Great race and congrats to both owners on having such awesome cars !


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    Yea so I just read through all the Shift Sector thread JRCART posted ( mega late ) and I now realize why tumbleweeds are flowing across in here. Eh well, hopefully this will serve well for the people that didn't know about the SS thread.

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    What happens when an ESS-Tuning VT3-700 supercharged built S65 motor DCT E92 M3 runs into a stock internal M156 Weistec Stage III supercharged C63? It loses

    This was a race many of you were waiting to see, a "built" motor supercharged DCT M3 versus a Stage III supercharged C63 AMG. The C63 AMG is the new W204 Black Series whose M156 V8 features stronger forged internals than the standard M156 in regular C63 AMG's that do not have the optional P31 performance package. At about 11 psi of boost on a 91 octane tune for the AMG power is in the upper 600 wheel horsepower range and would be higher with a race gas tune.

    Click here to enlarge

    The E92 M3 features an ESS Tuning VT3 built motor setup with power in the mid 600 wheel range on race gas. Unfortunately, this is a very weak example of a built motor M3 due to the block not being sleeved. It is simply a stock block with a dropped compression ratio for longevity purposes which prevents "accidents" from happening on the stock internals. It really does not offer much of a power benefit over a stock internal car as the compression ratio drop means more air needs to be compressed to make up for the lost power per psi of boost.

    It uses the exact same Vortech blower as the standard ESS kits which is undersized for a true built motor setup. A properly built low compression M3 with a properly sized blower should not lose to a stock internal M156 on a 91 octane and should not be in the 6XX wheel horsepower range. Regardless, what happened is what happened and the Weistec Stage III setups continue to impress as this C63 beats "the best" ESS has to offer and has been seen simply walking away from some very quick cars. Much respect to Wesitec on their build and checking egos, video below.


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Yea so I just read through all the Shift Sector thread JRCART posted ( mega late ) and I now realize why tumbleweeds are flowing across in here. Eh well, hopefully this will serve well for the people that didn't know about the SS thread.
    Nah it needed its own thread good job. Also needed to front page it.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    did Weistec jump? Looked like that got into the throttle way before the cone...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    did Weistec jump? Looked like that got into the throttle way before the cone...
    Maybe just the instant torque? Wouldn't have mattered though, it's just faster.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Maybe just the instant torque? Wouldn't have mattered though, it's just faster.
    Impossible. If ESS loses, its because the ESS car wasnt running all out and/or having issues. but ESS doesnt have any issue's, ever. So the competitor had to be cheating

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    Of course had to be cheating. Not like 11 psi from a 3.0 liter blower on an M156 will win against a V3si at 10.0:1.

    The V3si and the 2.3 liter are a better matchup considering the max CFM.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    I like how the second and third paragraphs are about how Sticky's car is superior.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    I like how the second and third paragraphs are about how Sticky's car is superior.
    No it's about how this isn't much of a built motor setup.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nah it needed its own thread good job. Also needed to front page it.
    Cool...

    Question, i'm not too familiar with Drew's setup. You said it's just a drop in compression, what method was used ? Forged pistons/rods ? I ask because i'm wondering does the block NEED to be sleeved in order to make big numbers ? I would think it'd suck to spend the money on internals if i'm only making ~100 more whp. Does the S65 need to be sleeved in order to fully utilize a bigger blower and more boost ? Forgive my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand why his setup seems to be inefficent as your second paragraph suggests.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Cool...

    Question, i'm not too familiar with Drew's setup. You said it's just a drop in compression, what method was used ? Forged pistons/rods ? I ask because i'm wondering does the block NEED to be sleeved in order to make big numbers ? I would think it'd suck to spend the money on internals if i'm only making ~100 more whp. Does the S65 need to be sleeved in order to fully utilize a bigger blower and more boost ? Forgive my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand why his setup seems to be inefficent as your second paragraph suggests.
    you sound familiar.. where are you from..?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    you sound familiar.. where are you from..?
    Not sure I understand the question fully ?

    Are you asking where was I born/raised or what car forums do I frequent ?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    You said it's just a drop in compression, what method was used ? Forged pistons/rods ?
    Yes.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    I ask because i'm wondering does the block NEED to be sleeved in order to make big numbers ? I would think it'd suck to spend the money on internals if i'm only making ~100 more whp.
    Yes, it needs to be sleeved to make big numbers. Cylinder spacing is tight, material is super lightweight and weak (not iron like the S54), and it will flex/give.

    Yes, it sucks to spend money on the internals to only make a few more horses unless someone else foots the bill...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    oes the S65 need to be sleeved in order to fully utilize a bigger blower and more boost ?
    Yes.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes.



    Yes, it needs to be sleeved to make big numbers. Cylinder spacing is tight, material is super lightweight and weak (not iron like the S54), and it will flex/give.

    Yes, it sucks to spend money on the internals to only make a few more horses unless someone else foots the bill...



    Yes.
    Ah thanks ! Learn something new everyday.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Cool...

    Question, i'm not too familiar with Drew's setup. You said it's just a drop in compression, what method was used ? Forged pistons/rods ? I ask because i'm wondering does the block NEED to be sleeved in order to make big numbers ? I would think it'd suck to spend the money on internals if i'm only making ~100 more whp. Does the S65 need to be sleeved in order to fully utilize a bigger blower and more boost ? Forgive my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand why his setup seems to be inefficent as your second paragraph suggests.
    To make BIG power (650 WHP+) on the S65, you're gonna at least need a sleeved block, forged internals & a bigger blower (Vortech T-Trim at a minimum). If you're looking to make a heavy hitter S65 (700 WHP+), you're gonna need to be mindful of block flex & some additional reinforcement to make sure that doesn't destroy the block.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Maybe just the instant torque? Wouldn't have mattered though, it's just faster.
    haha, yeah right... Blah Blah Blah. He jumped. haha

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    haha, yeah right... Blah Blah Blah. He jumped. haha
    00:53sec
    he was at the cones first, tq tends to move the car faster. you just never see M3's get that"hit" since they dont make tq

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    Sounds to me like the Benz is a superior platform for modding out of the box. And it's not like the black series premium has anything to do with it. Any stage 3 C63 w the MCT would yield similar results.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    To make BIG power (650 WHP+) on the S65, you're gonna at least need a sleeved block, forged internals & a bigger blower (Vortech T-Trim at a minimum). If you're looking to make a heavy hitter S65 (700 WHP+), you're gonna need to be mindful of block flex & some additional reinforcement to make sure that doesn't destroy the block.
    Ah I see. I gather this expense is what's deterring most owners.

    Question, when making that much power ( full build for 700+whp ), at what point does the DCT become a concern ? Or is this still being learned as time progresses ?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    00:53sec
    he was at the cones first, tq tends to move the car faster. you just never see M3's get that"hit" since they dont make tq
    I agree. I still think WT nailed the throttle a bit early giving himself the advantage with all that torque. Granted the M doesn't have that, but if he rolled out above 5000 rpm and was well in the HP on the cone, I think it wouldn't have been so one sided. Being in the right gear and at the right RPM when you hit the cone makes all the difference in the world, or at least a car length.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    I agree. I still think WT nailed the throttle a bit early giving himself the advantage with all that torque. Granted the M doesn't have that, but if he rolled out above 5000 rpm and was well in the HP on the cone, I think it wouldn't have been so one sided. Being in the right gear and at the right RPM when you hit the cone makes all the difference in the world, or at least a car length.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Ah I see. I gather this expense is what's deterring most owners.

    Question, when making that much power ( full build for 700+whp ), at what point does the DCT become a concern ? Or is this still being learned as time progresses ?
    The DCT is one problem, the other is people are content with their stock motor kits & hitting ~600 WHP (obviously a lot easier to return to stock in case someone decides to sell the car than a built motor). Sticky's car should be the highest HP DCT (Gintani Stage 3 with YSI blower) once it's 100% operational, but as of right now DSLJ5's (Drew) is the highest HP DCT with the ESS-VT3 putting down 670 WHP on the EAS "Super Generous" DynoJet


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    haha, yeah right... Blah Blah Blah. He jumped. haha
    It's a faster car, sorry, blah blah blah.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Sounds to me like the Benz is a superior platform for modding out of the box. And it's not like the black series premium has anything to do with it. Any stage 3 C63 w the MCT would yield similar results.
    The black series premium is a factor due to the stronger engine internals.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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