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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge I might have already filled one up with synthetic ATF, but I was hoping to find the exact oil it uses.
    Of course, the original oil would probably be best. Please share this information if you come across it.

  2. #27
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    Subscribed. But I can not offer much advice in this endeavor, I only know enough about hpfp's to keep myself out of trouble in basic theory, which happens to be just enough to probably make some very wrong assumptions here.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Subscribed. But I can not offer much advice in this endeavor, I only know enough about hpfp's to keep myself out of trouble in basic theory, which happens to be just enough to probably make some very wrong assumptions here.
    I can assume you prob know more than me about HPFP's, and the people who do know a lot about them wont touch it. Trust me, I am being very basic and mechanically minded with my modifications, keeping myself out of trouble.

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    What I know is this:

    1) They are positive displacement, so fill the inlet and they will compress it.
    2) Their output is (typically) directly related to rpm they spin at, and piston/bore size.
    3) They are noisy.
    4) ???

    I don't understand the restriction bmw put in. But, if I had to guess, it would not be so much to restrict flow but to increase velocity... maybe to help the hpfp output in case the lpfp was failing? Honestly, I'm not entirely sure if that statement works with the physics of these things. And at these power levels it seems like more of a restriction.

    Something about oil and unicorns.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    What I know is this:

    1) They are positive displacement, so fill the inlet and they will compress it.
    2) Their output is (typically) directly related to rpm they spin at, and piston/bore size.
    3) They are noisy.
    4) ???

    I don't understand the restriction bmw put in. But, if I had to guess, it would not be so much to restrict flow but to increase velocity... maybe to help the hpfp output in case the lpfp was failing? Honestly, I'm not entirely sure if that statement works with the physics of these things. And at these power levels it seems like more of a restriction.

    Something about oil and unicorns.
    You have addressed one of my biggest question marks, I will be testing one of these this week sometime. But in my quest for flow have I hurt velocity, or pressure? We shall see.

  6. #31
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    Inlet velocity drops can be countered by raising inlet pressure, albeit less reliably in cases of lpfp low output conditions I would think. Or maybe it's to help it fill at higher pump rpm? Maybe it's similar to velocity stacks on engine intakes... maybe not even the right train of thought.

    Whatever the reason it's still a simple concept that bmw simply added complexity to. I'd say step one remove complexity and see what changes lol. A small crash at x rpm countered by more lpfp pressure netting flow capacity would be a win imo. Too many questions not enough answers to really know much of anything yet, but history favors the bold, no balls no babies, and I believe in luck over skill in at least 1 in 4 situations (trying to change that last view).

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    I would just wait and see what fuel system parts from the new M3 engine we would be able to swap out.

    I am hoping that injectors and HPFP will be a direct swap for us. I would not be surprised if the Gen 2 of injectors that was recently released will be used in the new M3/M4 engine...

    Again, this is just wishful thinking, but it's quite possible...
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    May as well change the thread's title @Sticky. It's a bit misleading at this point. Kinda pathetic none of the big name companies out there are even attempting it. Thankfully Tony has no fear Click here to enlarge
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  9. #34
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    Why not use engine oil 0w30
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I would just wait and see what fuel system parts from the new M3 engine we would be able to swap out.

    I am hoping that injectors and HPFP will be a direct swap for us. I would not be surprised if the Gen 2 of injectors that was recently released will be used in the new M3/M4 engine...

    Again, this is just wishful thinking, but it's quite possible...
    My car just had those new injectors installed... 6 of them.. are they supposed to have better flow characteristics?
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    What I think I know about the fuel system:
    -LPFP is regulated to 72psi, by PWM pump speed
    -HPFP is PD pump moving fuel from the pumping cavity to the rail. Pressure in won’t matter… what does matter is keeping the cavity full.
    -Rail pressure is regulated by fuel control valve on HPFP… this valve controls fuel volume to the cavity effecting volume/pressure in the rail.

    Potential reasons for reduced capacity:
    -LPFP can’t keep up with volume. Reducing restrictions will increase volume to the HPFP
    -Pumps in parallel may not be able to handle steady volume at 72psi. Try pumps in series to see if pressure is more consistent.
    -HPFP volume… if pressure is stable on the LP but dropping HP, this is a HPFP output issue.

    Getting to the sprocket could be fairly involved and not realistic for the typical DIYer, but potentially the tensioner would take up the slack so it would be simple as far as manufacturing solution. What about an adapter mounted to the vac pump and gear on the HPFP, but difficulty in manf is similar to altering pump internals.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    What I think I know about the fuel system:
    -LPFP is regulated to 72psi, by PWM pump speed
    -HPFP is PD pump moving fuel from the pumping cavity to the rail. Pressure in won’t matter… what does matter is keeping the cavity full.
    -Rail pressure is regulated by fuel control valve on HPFP… this valve controls fuel volume to the cavity effecting volume/pressure in the rail.

    Potential reasons for reduced capacity:
    -LPFP can’t keep up with volume. Reducing restrictions will increase volume to the HPFP
    -Pumps in parallel may not be able to handle steady volume at 72psi. Try pumps in series to see if pressure is more consistent.
    -HPFP volume… if pressure is stable on the LP but dropping HP, this is a HPFP output issue.

    Getting to the sprocket could be fairly involved and not realistic for the typical DIYer, but potentially the tensioner would take up the slack so it would be simple as far as manufacturing solution. What about an adapter mounted to the vac pump and gear on the HPFP, but difficulty in manf is similar to altering pump internals.
    Changing the sprocket is the worst possible solution, not only theory but also in actually making it work. Pretty sure at this point I am the only one who has pulled that part of the motor down that far to even get it out, it involved drilling a hole through the cover and slap hammering it out if anyone is considering it, don't, I used our non-running LB. To be clear, I HAVE ALL THIS STUFF APART ON A BENCH, I am not just thinking about what might work. If you are suggesting mounting an adapter on the Vacuum pump, you have never had this system apart nor really looked at it, its not possible. I have determined the 2 best options, modifying the stock pump to flow more, and adding a second pump in a viable location. I have 2 locations picked out and parts at the fabricator already just waiting for the results of the upgraded stock pump before he begins building. LPFP side of things is having zero problems and is not the cause of lack of fuel. It is a well documented, LPF remains perfectly steady, HPF begins to drop. We will see what happens when I test these things. I will have a fire extinguisher on hand, 2500 PSI of gas is no joke.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 04-03-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  13. #38
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    Can you explain the 2 pump combo? You’d have to have 2 control valves also, so I assume 2 BMW HPFPs splitting the valve single from the DME?
    What’s your thought on modifying the HPFP to flow more… output right? This would entail changing the plungers or increasing the oil diaphragms volumes.

    As far as adapter, I’ve seen the HPFP in pics only and can infer the vac pump side. An adapter would be similar to the HPFP but with a geared section coupled to the HPFP. I assume the cam part of the HPFP is pressed on and could be replaced with a gear. Anyway, very complicated I agree.

    Just thinking out loud.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    One HPFP per bank!!
    Looks very similar to MB's desitgn. Which btw has a low failure rate and a much easier design to modify. Both are cam driven and very simple in design unlike ours.

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    Tony, you should change your sig to: "Making the world happier one HPFP, two turbochargers at a time",since we do buy turbos in pairs!

  16. #41
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    Even if John from HPFP comes out with one for this platform I advise no one even consider it as a viable option. That guy is a crook. He has operated under more business names than I have years in my life. He has been kicked off every forum for lying, copying others ideas, bs parts that don't work, made up failure rates, and pumps that just suck. Look up company names like PTPerformance and all the other bs names associated with him. Some of the companies are even under his wife's name to attempt to hide his past.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jhershorin Click here to enlarge
    Even if John from HPFP comes out with one for this platform I advise no one even consider it as a viable option. That guy is a crook. He has operated under more business names than I have years in my life. He has been kicked off every forum for lying, copying others ideas, bs parts that don't work, made up failure rates, and pumps that just suck. Look up company names like PTPerformance and all the other bs names associated with him. Some of the companies are even under his wife's name to attempt to hide his past.
    Same guy that used to be into SRTs? If so, he got booted from the SRT scene for bring a thief. He was good for a while and then went completly south.

  18. #43
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    Sub'd.
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ATP Click here to enlarge
    Same guy that used to be into SRTs? If so, he got booted from the SRT scene for bring a thief. He was good for a while and then went completly south.
    Yes - same guy. He's been booted from EVERY forum. Changes names. Tries again. Company in wife's maiden name. Tries again. Instead of changing names he needs to change to a non business oriented field.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jhershorin Click here to enlarge
    Yes - same guy. He's been booted from EVERY forum. Changes names. Tries again. Company in wife's maiden name. Tries again. Instead of changing names he needs to change to a non business oriented field.
    Lol tell us how you really feel JakeClick here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Lol tell us how you really feel JakeClick here to enlarge
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