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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Yes & No. S65 (and the knock sensors) didn't come FI'd from BMW (simple comparison, N54 came turbo'd, that's why the DME can protect the motor from a $#@! tune & bad gas), so the knock sensors were never designed to work with anything beyond the motor itself. The S/C kit is obviously going to make the motor more prone to knock (serious performance increase on a stock motor), and low octane is only going to further increase the potential for knock/detonation.

    For all we know, the owner picked up the car, ran $#@! gas & ripped on the car while the dash was lighting up like a Christmas tree. BUT at the same time, the car couldn't been setup on a much more aggressive setup (strictly Race Gas tune + pulley combo), and running the car on any pump gas (even 93) would've eventually killed the motor.
    Yup, adding boost to a NA motor is always risky, and a na motor isnt engineered or designed to protect itself like a boosted motor would be, which is why I'd never buy a used supercharged m3. Unless I really really trusted the person.
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    ESS 6XX kit

  2. #27
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    If he only went to gas station and stayed below 3000 rpm or so that should not damage the car

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    If he only went to gas station and stayed below 3000 rpm or so that should not damage the car
    Of course not it's a scapegoat.

  4. #29
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    its a $#@!ty deal for everyone
    1. the new owner-should not have put 89 in; should have putted around until found acceptable fuel; who the $#@! only sells 89 octane?
    2. biglare- obviously a liar; if 93 is not available, then he was running a mix. a mix is not "93" and usually a higher octane; probably logged and tuned for more octame than "93" since it was driven hard/not a DD car;
    3. ess- having had contact with new owner, they better have made sure he had a 93 octane file. they knew #2 and if chose not to ensure the tune was setup appropriately, then they share some of the blame. it would be different if they did not have contact with new owner AND was not fully aware of a special car with special tuning and special requirements..

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    2. biglare- obviously a liar; if 93 is not available, then he was running a mix. a mix is not "93" and usually a higher octane; probably logged and tuned for more octame than "93" since it was driven hard/not a DD car;
    How's he running 93 in California? Come on man.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How's he running 93 in California? Come on man.
    thats what im saying. its what, a 16 gal tank? at 5 gallons of 103 to every tank is already almost 95 octane..and thats if the tank is "full" with 11 gallons of 91; not to mention it was used for hard driving, where performance is usually wanted to be maximized.. so probably even more race fuel, and less pumpgas for weight purposes and overall higher octane..

  7. #32
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    Running 89 octane is insane. I wouldn't do that on my mostly stock motor under any circumstances. There is no way anyone is going to root cause anything other than bad fuel at this point.

    I would bet the stock tune, even being "easy" on it, will detonate on 89 in the right circumstances - even under 3k rpm. It's more about load anyway than RPM. You can be at low RPM and extremely high load on the engine - like going up a hill. Who knows what was going on with that thing with the SC tune.

    Also - Roman said that the guy ripped past him on the Targa on 91octane and the guy does not dispute that.

    Honestly, no idea why this guy would buy this car; seems unable to deal with it. If you need 93 octane for the car, then you need to plan to have it in CA.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How's he running 93 in California? Come on man.
    Not like it's impossible to buy race gas or have it delivered.

  9. #34
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Not like it's impossible to buy race gas or have it delivered.
    Or at least get a 91oct map. But hey, he bought the SC so he has every right to do as he sees fit regardless how stupid it may be lol
    2011 FROZEN GREY EDITION 1 of 30 M3

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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Running 89 octane is insane. I wouldn't do that on my mostly stock motor under any circumstances. There is no way anyone is going to root cause anything other than bad fuel at this point.
    Why is it insane? Because he had to get to another gas station? You really think 89 octane will kill a motor because you drive it to another gas station? Saying it's simply a few gallons of 89 octane that did it is insane in of itself and clearly that is the scapegoat people are using here that isn't being eaten up.

    If the motor failed while on 89 octane while he was driving WOT that's a different story.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Also - Roman said that the guy ripped past him on the Targa on 91octane and the guy does not dispute that.
    Ya, sounds like maybe he should have run meth as well but it's too late. Why did ESS not check with this customer?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, no idea why this guy would buy this car; seems unable to deal with it. If you need 93 octane for the car, then you need to plan to have it in CA.
    Let's assume he is mildly retarded for a moment but then why didn't the tuner who knew this was a CA car not take care of this? I seriously doubt this car didn't see 91 octane before and claims were made about 91 octane pump gas with it by the previous owner as well.

    Motors fail, it happens. This guy should have ran meth.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why is it insane? Because he had to get to another gas station? You really think 89 octane will kill a motor because you drive it to another gas station? Saying it's simply a few gallons of 89 octane that did it is insane in of itself and clearly that is the scapegoat people are using here that isn't being eaten up.
    Yes, I think it is very likely that the stock tuning will detonate on 89 octane. I would not drive my car on 89. I would tow it or get it some proper gas.

    If the motor failed while on 89 octane while he was driving WOT that's a different story.
    You do not need to drive a motor WOT to put enough load on it to make it detonate.

    Ya, sounds like maybe he should have run meth as well but it's too late. Why did ESS not check with this customer?
    According to Roman and the previous owner, they both told him the tune needed 93 octane. He doesn't debate that fact.

    Let's assume he is mildly retarded for a moment but then why didn't the tuner who knew this was a CA car not take care of this? I seriously doubt this car didn't see 91 octane before and claims were made about 91 octane pump gas with it by the previous owner as well.
    They did tell him. If he wanted a 91 octane tune, I'm sure ESS would give it - why wouldn't they?

    Motors fail, it happens. This guy should have ran meth.
    Meth is fine...but previous owner had no issues on 93; not sure why you would switch to 91 and take no precautions. Makes zero sense to me and he has really offered no explanation.

    Could be bad gas, could have been a previous issue, could have been a bad motor from the factory, could be a bad tune. It's going to be nearly impossible to tell at this point. Only thing we know for sure is that the guy ran inappropriate fuel and was pushing it on 91 octane. Just plain stupid if you ask me.

  12. #37
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    So how is this a 625 kit again?

    If you have a kit of any kind please measure your pulley so we can finally let the Bs out of the bag.


    I have over layed some of the graphs posted on the forums this last week.. Confused I am ??

    Lets not even look at the 13.0 afr at redline but just boost. We have sold many kits and I can tell you i have never seen kits jumping around in power like this with a "static" boost figure. Example: You will never see one of our level 2 8 psi kits make more than a level 3 9 psi Ever yet you see this all the time from them.

    Blue line -625 vt2 7 psi claimed
    Green line - 650 vt2 with meth 8 psi claimed
    Red line - vt3 725 kit 11.47 psi --For boost /hp comparison


    Click here to enlarge

    Still not confused ? Check http://s65dynos.com/ Compare Kit rating Psi and Hp.
    Last edited by Andrew@activeautowerke; 04-09-2013 at 12:55 PM.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    So how is this a 625 kit again?

    If you have a kit of any kind please measure your pulley so we can finally let the Bs out of the bag.


    I have over layed some of the graphs posted on the forums this last week.. Confused I am ??

    Lets not even look at the 13.0 afr at redline but just boost. We have sold many kits and I can tell you i have never seen kits jumping around in power like this with a "static" boost figure. Example: You will never see one of our level 2 8 psi kits make more than a level 3 9 psi Ever yet you see this all the time from them.

    Blue line -625 vt2 7 psi claimed
    Green line - 650 vt2 with meth 8 psi claimed
    Red line - vt3 725 kit 11.47 psi --For boost /hp comparison


    Click here to enlarge

    Still not confused ? Check http://s65dynos.com/ Compare Kit rating Psi and Hp.
    lol, its not even worth arguing over.. apparently anything richer than 12.8 on an ESS kit is "pig rich" and robbing power..

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ya, sounds like maybe he should have run meth as well but it's too late. Why did ESS not check with this customer?
    This I'll take issue with. Yes, if ESS is making $#@! tunes or selling a product that's not actually safe to be run on a car with a particular octane, I hold them responsible. BUT it's certainly not ESS' responsibility to keep track of every S/C kit they sell and make sure the new owner is fully aware of the potential dangers/damages that can be caused by not running the new setup with the approriate octane/supporting mods.

    IF anyone is in the market for a supercharger, regardless of what vendor & platform, they should investigate & educate themselves on what the necessary mods/octane for the kit to run safely.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Lets not even look at the 13.0 afr at redline but just boost. We have sold many kits and I can tell you i have never seen kits jumping around in power like this with a "static" boost figure. Example: You will never see one of our level 2 8 psi kits make more than a level 3 9 psi Ever yet you see this all the time from them.

    Blue line -625 vt2 7 psi claimed
    Green line - 650 vt2 with meth 8 psi claimed
    Red line - vt3 725 kit 11.47 psi --For boost /hp comparison


    Click here to enlarge
    THIS is a problem, something that ESS needs to acknowledge & explain. BUT if you threw this up on M3P where your ESS Army is, you'd get hit with the ban-hammer before anybody even commented on the thread.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    This I'll take issue with. Yes, if ESS is making $#@! tunes or selling a product that's not actually safe to be run on a car with a particular octane, I hold them responsible. BUT it's certainly not ESS' responsibility to keep track of every S/C kit they sell and make sure the new owner is fully aware of the potential dangers/damages that can be caused by not running the new setup with the approriate octane/supporting mods.

    IF anyone is in the market for a supercharger, regardless of what vendor & platform, they should investigate & educate themselves on what the necessary mods/octane for the kit to run safely.




    THIS is a problem, something that ESS needs to acknowledge & explain. BUT if you threw this up on M3P where your ESS Army is, you'd get hit with the ban-hammer before anybody even commented on the thread.

    That's why I am here... I'm not even looking to create drama like they assume I am but it makes it very hard to sell a customer a kit when a 625 kit makes "more" power than our level 3. They are creating a false reality of boost pressures and hp figures.

    so either..

    1. They are sending out smaller pulleys without the customers knowledge to create higher than normal dyno's.

    2. Customer are aware and will gladly say they have a 625 kit with a 650 pulley to create hype.

    All I can say is all of our kits are within a few hp from each other. I have never encountered a 50-70 whp jump without an increase in boost.
    Last edited by Andrew@activeautowerke; 04-09-2013 at 02:23 PM.

  16. #41
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    I just had my non-intercooled ESS kit upgraded to 625 spec and i have a 96mm pulley. Carefully measured with a digital caliper.

    Hopefully i'll be able to get it on the dyno next week.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Chris3g Click here to enlarge
    I just had my non-intercooled ESS kit upgraded to 625 spec and i have a 96mm pulley. Carefully measured with a digital caliper.

    Hopefully i'll be able to get it on the dyno next week.
    Great Info thank you Chris!

    I took 4 of the highest runs per 625 kit from from s65dyno.

    Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Great Info thank you Chris!

    I took 4 of the highest runs per 625 kit from from s65dyno.

    Click here to enlarge
    lol, 0 smoothing fail Click here to enlarge

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, 0 smoothing fail Click here to enlarge
    YOLO Click here to enlarge

    And just for fun. 625 vs our level 3
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #45
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    Andrew saw this on m3post too, really badly wanted to call bs but just knowing what fan boy reaction would be no point going in circles with them. I've seen 625 kit barely made 500whp then others make what they should but most make 30-40 more then rated. That a/r is messy the gen1 lvl 2 we just dyno sat on 12.1 from 5500 right to red line. Made 490whp on a dyno dynamics
    [QUOTE=Andrewactiveautowerkeowerke;438757]So how is this a 625 kit again?

    If you have a kit of any kind please measure your pulley so we can finally let the Bs out of the bag.


    I have over layed some of the graphs posted on the forums this last week.. Confused I am ??

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VCMPower Click here to enlarge
    Andrew saw this on m3post too, really badly wanted to call bs but just knowing what fan boy reaction would be no point going in circles with them. I've seen 625 kit barely made 500whp then others make what they should but most make 30-40 more then rated. That a/r is messy the gen1 lvl 2 we just dyno sat on 12.1 from 5500 right to red line. Made 490whp on a dyno dynamics

    Yeah there is no point in commenting there. All they want to do is throw mud. I think its a fair question to ask how a 625 kit makes more than a 650 kit with less boost, less octane and very close temp conditions.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    es, I think it is very likely that the stock tuning will detonate on 89 octane. I would not drive my car on 89. I would tow it or get it some proper gas.
    Why would it? Can you provide a technical reason why a blower that doesn't make full boost at low RPM will annihilate a motor with a few gallons of 89 octane being driven to another gas station?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    You do not need to drive a motor WOT to put enough load on it to make it detonate.
    But detonation at WOT at max rpm with max boost is likely worse right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    According to Roman and the previous owner, they both told him the tune needed 93 octane. He doesn't debate that fact.
    Previous owner claimed 91 octane dynos. Dyno games then?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    They did tell him. If he wanted a 91 octane tune, I'm sure ESS would give it - why wouldn't they?
    They would. What they should have done is made sure to spare everyone any trouble. Go above and beyond...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Meth is fine...but previous owner had no issues on 93; not sure why you would switch to 91 and take no precautions. Makes zero sense to me and he has really offered no explanation.
    Guy said he already heard the motor making noises. We saw a vid of another ESS guy with a car making apparently the same noise and he traded it in before it failed like the class act he is.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Could be bad gas, could have been a previous issue, could have been a bad motor from the factory, could be a bad tune. It's going to be nearly impossible to tell at this point.
    Thank you, I agree 100%. And this is why people jumping at 89 octane as the scapegoat to spare any possible blame to anyone or anything else are sheep.

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    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  23. #48
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    Where's scooby doo when you need him



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrewactiveautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Yeah there is no point in commenting there. All they want to do is throw mud. I think its a fair question to ask how a 625 kit makes more than a 650 kit with less boost, less octane and very close temp conditions.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VCMPower Click here to enlarge
    Where's scooby doo when you need him
    Last I heard the mystery van had a 550 kit installed putting out 600 Wheel. Doubt we will hear from them again :/
    Last edited by Andrew@activeautowerke; 04-09-2013 at 09:18 PM.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Last I heard the mystery van had a 550 kit installed putting out 600 Wheel. Doubt we will hear from them again :/
    that was after it had the upgraded 5.5 psi 92mm pulley though..

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