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  1. #276
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Weird how that's exactly the opposite of what you was arguing a couple a couple weeks ago when I said 93 + meth was what I was interested in seeing. Ohh and the DME pulls timing in response to CATs without it being corrections, you can easily lose several degrees of timing advance in response to CATs and not have a single correction. That's how the DME can compensate for a fairly aggressive tune and it still be safe in hot weather.
    weird, how I said 91 octane is where it should start and then move to 93, 93+meth, and 100, 100+meth, as I ALSO said its what most people, myself included run.. interesting turn of events, or just trying to puff your chest..?

    not sure about your cats comment.. dont see that holding value here..
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    This.

    To clarify though, we made 582whp once meth was turned on for the same map that made 572whp on just 91 octane. The 602whp pull where Tony lifted had a new map with just 2deg extra timing on top of 91 and smoothing changes to boost control to lift the bump you saw at 4500-5k rpm.

    Its just work in progress and lots more to follow. Don't be too hard on us for showing you preliminary results guys. Its easy not to show anything until its all perfect but that'd mean no fun on the forums Click here to enlarge I know how much I anticipate seeing results out there but let's try not to nitpick just yet. Once we say that's all we can do then we can all nitpick heh
    DZ, not being hard, just open and had a thought about it. adding timing back in certainly explains the massive bump and defunks my thought process, but we didnt know that at the time. Keep up the good work Click here to enlarge

  2. #277
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    weird, how I said 91 octane is where it should start and then move to 93, 93+meth, and 100, 100+meth, as I ALSO said its what most people, myself included run.. interesting turn of events, or just trying to puff your chest..?

    not sure about your cats comment.. dont see that holding value here..


    DZ, not being hard, just open and had a thought about it. adding timing back in certainly explains the massive bump and defunks my thought process, but we didnt know that at the time. Keep up the good work Click here to enlarge
    Cats = charge air temp. It completely holds value based on the DME logic... unless you were thinking about catalytic converters.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Of course the meth run was a different tune! Look at the lack of "dip", that both Tony and Dzenno said that would be tuned out, and it shows in their last dyno.
    \increase your knowledge first.

    if that was truely a no $#@! no changes tune, then my comment about timing being pulled would be spot on.. have you seen dyno runs that were too aggressive for the octane, and then octane added? it would look like what was posted.

    again, not faulting anyone, a simple observation, and an easy correction.

    you fuksticks are quick to troll someone for asking questions, your newb status shows very clearly when anyone questions VTT.
    believe me, you would rather these questions, be asked here, and by me, rather than anyone else.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Cats = charge air temp. It completely holds value based on the DME logic... unless you were thinking about catalytic converters.
    well, yes, i thought about convertors in the comment, but again, charge air temps, induce timing corrections-which is still rectified by octane, which still supports overly advanced timing.. dme of piggy tuned makes no difference. and that would have thought more efficient turbos would not have such an issue at that boost, but i guess im wrong. once again for trolls, thats not a "knock", just an assumption i made, and obviously an incorrect one.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    \increase your knowledge first.

    if that was truely a no $#@! no changes tune, then my comment about timing being pulled would be spot on.. have you seen dyno runs that were too aggressive for the octane, and then octane added? it would look like what was posted.

    again, not faulting anyone, a simple observation, and an easy correction.

    you fuksticks are quick to troll someone for asking questions, your newb status shows very clearly when anyone questions VTT.
    believe me, you would rather these questions, be asked here, and by me, rather than anyone else.
    Telling me to "increase my knowledge" While you're complaining that you're assumption about not changing the maps is kinda absurd.

    I will jump on, and point out the face that people like you that are trying to "smear" something, when they don't have all the details.

    You did or didn't know if the maps were changed?

    When I seen the graph originally posted, than Tony overlapped the ladder graph over top, I immediately knew uhh.. (ASS U ME) it was a different tune, why anyone would assume that adding meth, to the same tune would add 30whp. is beyond anyone's comprehension.

    My guess is for whatever reason you thought the opposite, and with all your superior knowledge I don't know how thats possible.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    What you're not getting is the 91 octane number is simply that, 91 octane. Takes time to properly dial everything in for different fuels, setups, etc.

    What I want to see is an E85+meth dyno sheet. 700 whp should come easy assuming you can crank the boost properly.
    Def agree on the first statement. However, I think people are going to be a bit disappointed by e85 in this application, at the very least with e85 used by itself (e85+enough meth might bandaid it temporarily). If the HPFP is running out of volume on 91 octane pisswater, it's really going to struggle with a fuel that is significantly less energy dense. IMHO, MS109/GT260P+meth is what will allow this setup to shine brightest until either an HPFP upgrade or some form of supplementary injection comes around.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Yikes. Its sad to see that so many people are so quick to say things that they aren't entirely sure of and have the theory and knowledge to back up. There are many different approaches to tuning. This first set of attempts to put together a map for base testing was a success for Tony, PTF, and Cobb. We werent looking to max out numbers and show that the kit was the highest horsepower and highest this and fastest that. It was a tune done remotely from 2500 miles away to get Tony running and the car making good power. We could tune this car 19 different ways at this point - anything from lower boost and different timing curves, to different AFR's and up tapering boost, to any imaginable combination of values in the tables. Now - some of the ways I just mentioned would be pointless and some I didn't mention would be very relevant but this is unchartered teritory on this motor. This is combining flow in a different way than only 1 other person on this platform has and until we have time to sit down and try each of the combinations to figure out what makes the car the "happiest" using a complete tuning solution like the AP - we won't have final information or numbers to show. However 572whp is damn impressive for a remote first time go around on this. The keyboard warriors quick to criticize aren't out there attempting this with their own investments. If there were so many people skilled enough to pull this off...wouldn't it be done?

    Cmon guys - sit back and enjoy what is to come. PTF will be flying out to visit Tony in the next few weeks and we will get this dialed in and running even stronger with the many different fueling options we plan to tune for. Tony has designed a great setup that will allow people to the power that they want - and with 7 different turbo options it can be tailored to your specific HP desires and spool requirements.

  8. #283
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Telling me to "increase my knowledge" While you're complaining that you're assumption about not changing the maps is kinda absurd.
    yes, increase your knowldge- its not a difficult task- my assumption was based off of the information at hand, and in that context, would have been a valid assumption
    I will jump on, and point out the face that people like you that are trying to "smear" something, when they don't have all the details.
    once again, a question is a smear? how so, was it not a stg3 option that i heavily argued for from day 1? was it not pisswater 91 octane first that I heavily argued for? troll, newb, take your pic, you fit either

    You did or didn't know if the maps were changed?

    we were TOLD that no changes were in between.. your reaching here..if i told you right now that you were a $#@!stik newb, that would currently be an accurate statement, given all the information to date. now, if tomorrow you surprised us all with accurate knowledge and information, that assumption would be debunked, but Im sure no new information to contradict my current assumption will be forthcoming, so its accurate for the time and information presented..

    When I seen the graph originally posted, than Tony overlapped the ladder graph over top, I immediately knew uhh.. (ASS U ME) it was a different tune, why anyone would assume that adding meth, to the same tune would add 30whp. is beyond anyone's comprehension.

    $#@! your dumb- Tony STATED NO TUNING CHANGES, so why would you think tuning changed? See the difference again, i read what they wrote, and NOT jumped to conclusions.

    My guess is for whatever reason you thought the opposite, and with all your superior knowledge I don't know how thats possible.

    re-read above,

    bold, unlike yourself..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Def agree on the first statement. However, I think people are going to be a bit disappointed by e85 in this application, at the very least with e85 used by itself (e85+enough meth might bandaid it temporarily). If the HPFP is running out of volume on 91 octane pisswater, it's really going to struggle with a fuel that is significantly less energy dense. IMHO, MS109/GT260P+meth is what will allow this setup to shine brightest until either an HPFP upgrade or some form of supplementary injection comes around.
    Which is why I said E85+meth Click here to enlarge at least until secondary port injection becomes a reality

    Fwiw 20 psi on rbs with E85 blend leaned out due to stock lpfp not holding pressure, adding meth made me go rich, a 66% swing with no other changes. Amazing what meth can do in regards to fueling.

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    Congrats on reaching this milestone! I am looking forward to results with further fine tuning!

    Ignore the nit-pickers, results are worth a million key strokes.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    What you're not getting is the 91 octane number is simply that, 91 octane. Takes time to properly dial everything in for different fuels, setups, etc.

    What I want to see is an E85+meth dyno sheet. 700 whp should come easy assuming you can crank the boost properly.
    Full aware certain octanes are going to prevent & limit the aggressiveness of the tuning, my "issue" is that the information was a little misleading. I was simply looking for an explanation for how there was a noticeable HP bump when meth was added on the exact same tune.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Of course the meth run was a different tune! Look at the lack of "dip", that both Tony and Dzenno said that would be tuned out, and it shows in their last dyno.
    In Tony's post about the results & trying to explain why there was an increase when meth was added, it was said that the tune was the exact same (why I requoted that statement).


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I got the runs mixed up, as at the end things were getting hetic as $#@! as we were running out of time. The runs were back to back and both numbers were up on the screen.
    Thank you for your honesty. Not once have I called you or your products into question.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Yes the person who has been the most transparent, and honest of just about any vendor in regards to what is going on with his products is going to mislead everyone for 17 hp. As the actaul run with no tune changes was 585, and something like 560 tq. I would have to look back to confirm tq. This, isn't a court case or trial. Your bolding of statements isn't evidence of anything, except you have too much time on your hands.
    Stop trying to make yourself a martyr. You made a mistake & posted misleading information. What LM & I were looking for was an explanation for why the HP increased on the same tune by just adding meth (even you said you were surprised by increase in performance). Turns out that it was a different tunes -- Not a big deal, but there's the explanation. AND that's the beauty of this forum (especially when compared to E90Post/M3Post), that I can challenge your claims without getting censored or banned from the forum. Btw, 572 -> 602 isn't 17 HP, it's 30, which isn't going to happen without some minor adjustment being made to the tune.

    Clearly you're taking it too personally if you're taking jabs at me. Not once did I challenge the quality of the product or your professionalism, but you respond to me by taking a dig at me?? What's your $#@!ing deal? I don't have an issue with anyone, but I think you should stick to what you're good at (and what you're here to market) and make the turbos. Leave the tuning to PTF, Terry, or anyone else that decides they want to take a shot.
    Last edited by benzy89; 03-18-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  12. #287
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Full aware certain octanes are going to prevent & limit the aggressiveness of the tuning, my "issue" is that the information was a little misleading. I was simply looking for an explanation for how there was a noticeable HP bump when meth was added on the exact same tune.


    In Tony's post about the results & trying to explain why there was an increase when meth was added, it was said that the tune was the exact same (why I requoted that statement).



    Thank you for your honesty. Not once have I called you or your products into question.


    Stop trying to make yourself a martyr. You made a mistake & posted misleading information. What LM & I were looking for was an explanation for why the HP increased on the same tune by just adding meth (even you said you were surprised by increase in performance). Turns out that it was a different tunes -- Not a big deal, but there's the explanation. AND that's the beauty of this forum (especially when compared to E90Post/M3Post), that I can challenge your claims without getting censored or banned from the forum. Btw, 572 -> 602 isn't 17 HP, it's 30, which isn't going to happen without some minor adjustment being made to the tune.

    Clearly you're taking it too personally if you're taking jabs at me. Not once did I challenge the quality of the product or your professionalism, but you respond to me by taking a dig at me?? What's your $#@!ing deal? I don't have an issue with anyone, but I think you should stick to what you're good at (and what you're here to market) and make the turbos. Leave the tuning to PTF, Terry, or anyone else that decides they want to take a shot.
    Fair point, but I surmise the tune may be a little hot for straight 91 octane which is why meth helped. Or it could be something as simple as an inefficient FMIC or run to run variance.

    Too many factors at play here

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    Ok obviously you guys don't have common sense, EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET, IS NOT ALWAYS CORRECT.

    If you think you can gain 30whp with meth on the same map..? I guess I should learn to not use my head.




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    "You can't put stuff on the internet that isn't true."

    "Where did you hear that?"

    "The internet."
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

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    I just meet a french model using the internet. We have a date tonight.

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    7 out of 7 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    This thread gives me a turboner!
    Click here to enlarge
    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

  17. #292
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    This thread gives me a turboner!
    haha upvote




  18. #293
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    @VargasTurboTech

    Is it possible for "us" to see a 4th gear pull on these Turbos ? Thanks

  19. #294
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Ok obviously you guys don't have common sense, EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET, IS NOT ALWAYS CORRECT.

    If you think you can gain 30whp with meth on the same map..? I guess I should learn to not use my head.
    you dont think you can gain 30 hp just by adding meth on certain tunes..? you need to learn more than i thought..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    you dont think you can gain 30 hp just by adding meth on certain tunes..? you need to learn more than i thought..
    No not on a 91 oct. first test tune. My common sense told me that didn't make sense.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Full aware certain octanes are going to prevent & limit the aggressiveness of the tuning, my "issue" is that the information was a little misleading. I was simply looking for an explanation for how there was a noticeable HP bump when meth was added on the exact same tune.


    In Tony's post about the results & trying to explain why there was an increase when meth was added, it was said that the tune was the exact same (why I requoted that statement).



    Thank you for your honesty. Not once have I called you or your products into question.


    Stop trying to make yourself a martyr. You made a mistake & posted misleading information. What LM & I were looking for was an explanation for why the HP increased on the same tune by just adding meth (even you said you were surprised by increase in performance). Turns out that it was a different tunes -- Not a big deal, but there's the explanation. AND that's the beauty of this forum (especially when compared to E90Post/M3Post), that I can challenge your claims without getting censored or banned from the forum. Btw, 572 -> 602 isn't 17 HP, it's 30, which isn't going to happen without some minor adjustment being made to the tune.

    Clearly you're taking it too personally if you're taking jabs at me. Not once did I challenge the quality of the product or your professionalism, but you respond to me by taking a dig at me?? What's your $#@!ing deal? I don't have an issue with anyone, but I think you should stick to what you're good at (and what you're here to market) and make the turbos. Leave the tuning to PTF, Terry, or anyone else that decides they want to take a shot.
    My apologies if you meant it in a non argumentative way. Just used to people nitpicking just about everything. We have nothing to hide. A couple really cool kids from the local N54 community wanted to come down and watch us Dyno, they were welcome. We do none of this in secret. And on your math, you may want to go back and read a little closer, 585 and 602 is indeed 17 HP.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    @VargasTurboTech

    Is it possible for "us" to see a 4th gear pull on these Turbos ? Thanks
    We will have no problem dynoing in 4th gear when it goes back on the dyno. Which it will in 3 weeks or so. As for now. The OP is picking up his car today for some much deserved seat time. Needless to say he is looking forward to having almost 575 reliable HP and not having to worry about anything other then stopping at the gas station and throwing some 91 in it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    No not on a 91 oct. first test tune. My common sense told me that didn't make sense.
    holy $#@!.. you keep giving credit to my original assumptions and you still dont understand.. target too much boost and too much timing on lower octane fuel, dyno it, then add meth-(ie. higher octane.) and dyno it...let all us fools know what you find out..

    **VTT/DZ-not that that is what happened- now im concerned with proving how moronic this child is**

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    Tony which set of twins you will be offering would offer the best spool while still having 650-ish rwhp potential on meth/race gas?

    Awesome setup, much props.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    holy $#@!.. you keep giving credit to my original assumptions and you still dont understand.. target too much boost and too much timing on lower octane fuel, dyno it, then add meth-(ie. higher octane.) let all us fools know what you find out..

    **VTT/DZ-not that that is what happened- now im concerned with proving how moronic this child is**
    So you assumed that DZ didn't tune the car properly for the 91 oct. tune? And with the added meth corrected this..

    So you where just wrong? Why is that hard for you?




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