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Thread: FTW E85 Dyno

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    FTW E85 Dyno

    Hey guys,

    So I read a bit on this oxygenated E85 stuff being offered for $32/gallon and just had to try some for myself. Turns out they have a dealer in Upton, CA so I sent Jeff@BMS on a wild goose chase through LA traffic to grab a few cans for testing.

    As soon as he got back I couldn't wait to hit the dyno to evaluate it. Click here to enlarge

    Since I know little about the fuel I decided to run a stable slightly conservative tune on the car so I'd have a good baseline. That wound up producing repeatable 480rw. I then added in 2 gallons of this magic fuel to around 4 gallons of the E50 I was running. Let the car idle a bit and did an adaption run. Then two normal runs. Low and behold, the crap actually worked. Power went up a consistent 10rw. On only a small mix of it! This stuff is a bit like nitrous in a can! Click here to enlarge

    Needless to say I would not be at all be surprised to see someone pickup 30rw running a 100% mix of this stuff. But at $150 per 5 gallon can, definitely not good on the wallet. Click here to enlarge
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    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-14-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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    daym....maybe they should change the name to FTMFW E85

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    Holy cow 150 for 5 gallons..Damn
    Click here to enlarge

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    Couldn't 10 RWHP be picked up just by mixing 109+ octane and E85?? I know one of the problems with regular, pump E85 is that it's blended with 87 pump gas. This is compared to vendor quality E85 (like from VP Racing, Rocket Fuel or FTW) which is blended with a higher octane "base" gas.


    Def not sure it's worth $150 for 5 gallons unless I'm looking to break records or embarrass people on airfields
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    I met the guy who invented this fuel. You can jack timing much higher and run more boost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Couldn't 10 RWHP be picked up just by mixing 109+ octane and E85?? I know one of the problems with regular, pump E85 is that it's blended with 87 pump gas. This is compared to vendor quality E85 (like from VP Racing, Rocket Fuel or FTW) which is blended with a higher octane "base" gas.


    Def not sure it's worth $150 for 5 gallons unless I'm looking to break records or embarrass people on airfields
    The point of the testing was to see what effect the oxygenation of the fuel had with zero changes to boost and timing. It was fairly miraculous. But, it comes at a steep price!

    I tried some higher boost 14 degree advance runs and it didn't seem to resist knock any better than normal E85. But I didn't spend a lot of time on it. But for kicks I ran it in "runway" trim which is around 12 degrees peak advance and 20psi tapering to 18psi at redline, and did 516rw. Not bad for high 80 temps. Previously on E50 alone that was worth 500rw.
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    So this is what you run for your KOTS, Runway, and other special events, and stick with normal E50 every other day.




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    Wow, theres gotta be a cheaper source?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Wow, theres gotta be a cheaper source?
    From what I've seen there is only one source, and that is from the developer.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Wow, theres gotta be a cheaper source?
    FTW is the only vendor of this super oxygenated E85-formula (it's basically their home brew, super fuel). Like I said, I'm more interested to see if you could get similar results blending Race Gas & E85 or even just sourcing some E98.
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    oxygenated E85? so it's not ethanol, something with a bit more oxygen in it?

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    I'm confused. I want a sample to analyze and figure out how this is oxygenated... ethanol is already oxygenated, if you add another oxygen to it you get ethylene glycol. Awesome numbers though!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Like I said, I'm more interested to see if you could get similar results blending Race Gas & E85 or even just sourcing some E98.
    Nope.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Nope.
    Are there results that illustrate this?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I'm confused. I want a sample to analyze and figure out how this is oxygenated... ethanol is already oxygenated, if you add another oxygen to it you get ethylene glycol. Awesome numbers though!
    It has a very unique odor. Smells very similar to Q16... So surmised they took E100 and mixed with 15% of some oxygenating fluid.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Are there results that illustrate this?
    See first post. 10rw gains with identical timing and boost curve. MS109, E98, E85 mixtures, etc, if sufficient to max out your timing curve all else being equal all produce the same dyno results.
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    Great numbers but expensive. I just cleaned my valves by walnut blasting today. I think I got a permanent 10-15 whp just by doing that alone.

    Sunoco has a similar fuel called E85-R.


    "Sunoco E85-R is an unleaded racing fuel containing 85 volume % ethanol. It can only be used in fuel systems designed specifically for E85 blends. Because it is highly oxygenated and requires increased fuel flow compared to conventional non-oxygenated fuels, consult with your fuel injection system or carburetor supplier for correct air/fuel ratio calibrations.

    Sunoco E85-R is blended to consistently contain 85% ethanol. Conventional E85 can vary from 68% to 79% ethanol or so but rarely contains 85% ethanol. Conventional E85 can also vary seasonally; the composition of Sunoco E85-R race fuel does not change. The non-ethanol portion of Sunoco E85-R is comprised of highly-refined race fuel hydrocarbons for stability and consistency. Sunoco E85-R is the racer’s fuel of choice where E85 fuels are allowed.

    Sunoco E85-R does not contain metallic additives and will not harm oxygen sensors. It should be stored in dark, tightly sealed containers where the temperature is stable. Handled under such conditions, shelf life is in excess of 1 year. Check with your fuel system and fuel container manufacturers for compatibility with ethanol and E85 blends."


    Technical Details
    Color Pale Green
    Octane (R+M)/2 99
    Research Octane 104
    Motor Octane 94
    Specific Gravity 0.79
    Weight (lbs/gallon) 6.6
    Reid Vapor Pressure 4.4
    Initial Boiling Point 135
    10% Evaporation 165
    50% Evaporation 171
    90% Evaporation 173
    Final Boiling Point 180
    Stoichiometric Air/Fuel Ratio 9.9
    Oxygen (weight%) 29
    Ethanol (volume%) 85
    HC Ratio 2.7
    OC Ratio 0.39
    Aromatics 8
    Leaded No

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    Yes I've heard of it. Have not tested it though. I think it's also pretty expensive?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes I've heard of it. Have not tested it though. I think it's also pretty expensive?

    Cant be much more expensive than the FTW




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    Great numbers but expensive. I just cleaned my valves by walnut blasting today. I think I got a permanent 10-15 whp just by doing that alone.

    Sunoco has a similar fuel called E85-R.
    Never heard of it or really anyone that sells it. At least with VP Racing Fuel or Rockett Brand (both who have E85 fuels), you can buy it from any of their approved vendors OR have it shipped directly to you (or a local shop you trust).
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes I've heard of it. Have not tested it though. I think it's also pretty expensive?
    Not really. $600 for a 55 gal drum. Shipping might cost a bit more if you can't find it locally. Which comes out to $10.90 a gal. Beats FTW $32 gal any-day.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Cant be much more expensive than the FTW
    http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/...oductid=790194

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    Or you can buy denatured alcohol(e95) for $400 for a 55gal drum...
    Click here to enlarge
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    I pay $10/gallon for E98 delivered in 55 gallon drums... Shipping is around $300 per drum. The fuel itself is only $220.

    If the E85-R is as good as the FTWE85 then that would be great. Someone should do a similar test like I did with it. Just be sure to keep boost & timing fixed (e.g. you can't do this test with a flash based boost control scheme).
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I pay $10/gallon for E98 delivered in 55 gallon drums... Shipping is around $300 per drum. The fuel itself is only $220.

    If the E85-R is as good as the FTWE85 then that would be great. Someone should do a similar test like I did with it. Just be sure to keep boost & timing fixed (e.g. you can't do this test with a flash based boost control scheme).
    Where do you source the e98?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Where do you source the e98?
    Here: http://www.maperformance.com/55-gall...l#.UUKl4Ves600

    Maybe its $300 for the fuel and $220 for the shipping. Anyway it's around $520 delivered. Click here to enlarge
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