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  1. #1
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    HP gains from header and exhaust modifications - Comparing Headers and Exhaust Setups

    We were discussing headers in another thread a couple weeks ago so I thought I'd post some results from one of our customers on the East Coast who swapped out his US Supersprint headers for our RMS Supersport headers and a custom 3" exhaust.

    This customer has an E36 M3 with an RMS Stage 3 supercharger kit. The car is running 13.3psi.

    He originally had US Supersprint headers, supersprint midpipe and an AA gen III cat back. He purchased a set of our RMS Supersport headers and had them mated to a custom 3" exhaust. Our headers are designed to be installed with a custom exhaust to maximize exhaust flow. The headers point towards the differential instead of straight back so the exhaust can be built with the least number of bends. This is a great example of a well built exhaust system.

    His original setup made 409whp and 330wtq. Without changing anything other than his exhaust setup he had the car dynoed again and made 448whp and 365wtq. This is an increase of 39whp and 30wtq just from installing our headers and a custom 3" exhaust. He did not have the car re-tuned and he did not raise the boost.

    Here are some pictures of the car and his exhaust setup along with a dyno from his new setup.

    The Dyno (I know it's blurry. Sorry):
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    Before Dyno:
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    The Car:

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    Header and Exhaust Comparison Supersprint vs. RMS:

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    New Exhaust:

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    Last edited by THATDONFC; 03-13-2013 at 01:33 AM.

  2. #2
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    Where is the before graph?

  3. #3
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    Edited the first post to include the before graph

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    lol at using a mustang for the before and a dynojet after. if it is not run on the same machine it proves nothing

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    lol at using a mustang for the before and a dynojet after. if it is not run on the same machine it proves nothing
    Is the dynojet broken or something? The peak figures on it are still a reference point for all other dynojet pulls with this same motor that have exhaust and header setups.

    The baseline is still a Mustang baseline. It isn't anyone's fault if the owner chose to use two different dynos.

    Is it ideal for a before/after comparison? No, but saying it proves nothing is hardly accurate.

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    I was unaware that he used two different dynos before I posted this. I had to go search for the before dyno. Not a great comparison after all but the dynos are there for others to compare to.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is the dynojet broken or something? The peak figures on it are still a reference point for all other dynojet pulls with this same motor that have exhaust and header setups.

    The baseline is still a Mustang baseline. It isn't anyone's fault if the owner chose to use two different dynos.

    Is it ideal for a before/after comparison? No, but saying it proves nothing is hardly accurate.
    if i understand correctly the comparison has been made using a dyno (mustang) known to read lower than a dynojet. the after graph is with a dyno with reputation for reading higher. so how much of the gain is due to a higher reading dyno and how much of it is a real gain? nobody knows

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    if i understand correctly the comparison has been made using a dyno (mustang) known to read lower than a dynojet. the after graph is with a dyno with reputation for reading higher. so how much of the gain is due to a higher reading dyno and how much of it is a real gain? nobody knows
    You aren't getting it. The dynojet figures are all still comparable to other dynojets. The mustang baseline still is inline with other Mustang baselines.

    So ya, you don't have a before/after on the same dyno but you do still have before and after results. So your comment about "it proving nothing" kind of has no value.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You aren't getting it. The dynojet figures are all still comparable to other dynojets. The mustang baseline still is inline with other Mustang baselines.

    So ya, you don't have a before/after on the same dyno but you do still have before and after results. So your comment about "it proving nothing" kind of has no value.
    the thread is specifically about the gain from a header + exhaust swap alone, my comment is in that context. we don't know the gain or even if it was again so it proves nothing with respect to this

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    One thing you can look at when comparing these graphs is not the actual numbers but the shape of the hp/tq curves. Notice in the upper rpm range on the mustang dyno the hp curve flattens out. On the dynojet graph, after installing the headers, the hp curve keeps climbing in the upper rpm range.

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    It is unlikely that the changes did nothing or went backwards but it is always nice to see tests on the same machine so it is as scientific as practical. there is just a lot of variability between difference machine types and even different machines of the same brand so if this can be avoided then so much better the information that comes from it. Everyone loves a higher reading dyno regardless of whether it means something.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    the thread is specifically about the gain from a header + exhaust swap alone, my comment is in that context. we don't know the gain or even if it was again so it proves nothing with respect to this
    You know the gain because you have a dynojet graph and can look at dynojet baselines since there are so many to get a pretty damn good idea. Point is the graphs aren't worthless.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    It is unlikely that the changes did nothing or went backwards but it is always nice to see tests on the same machine so it is as scientific as practical. there is just a lot of variability between difference machine types and even different machines of the same brand so if this can be avoided then so much better the information that comes from it. Everyone loves a higher reading dyno regardless of whether it means something.
    Yes we all know you want to use the same dyno that didn't happen here we don't have time machines oh well life goes on.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You know the gain because you have a dynojet graph and can look at dynojet baselines since there are so many to get a pretty damn good idea. Point is the graphs aren't worthless.
    if you are suggesting comparing a completely separate engine with similar specs to see the gain then that is funny.........im not going to waste my time arguing anymore

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    if you are suggesting comparing a completely separate engine with similar specs to see the gain then that is funny.........im not going to waste my time arguing anymore
    Considering your desire seems to be nothing but negative and critical without finding any positive I think that's a good idea.

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    I will copy this setup...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by abood///M Click here to enlarge
    I will copy this setup...
    DO IT

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    RMS headers FTW

    Hi 5
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    DO IT
    I amClick here to enlarge

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    Interested in understanding more about the stage 3 setup. Is this a built motor for stage 3? Pretty sick results though.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
    | Stock for Now |

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    Interested in understanding more about the stage 3 setup. Is this a built motor for stage 3? Pretty sick results though.
    Stage 3 has low compression forged pistons and chromoly rods, mls head gasket, and arp 2000 head studs. A standard stage 3 runs 14-15 psi. We can supply pulleys in any combination for the desired boost level.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Considering your desire seems to be nothing but negative and critical without finding any positive I think that's a good idea.
    no i just prefer to use logic and reason not guestimates

  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Stage 3 has low compression forged pistons and chromoly rods, mls head gasket, and arp 2000 head studs. A standard stage 3 runs 14-15 psi. We can supply pulleys in any combination for the desired boost level.
    Thanks Chris, there is a good chance I will be an e36 M3 owner tomorrow (making an offer on one) and I am starting up on my research. I was originally thinking of motor swap but the car I am looking at is immaculate and I am just not sure I want to go down the swaping path.

    At any rate, I may be reaching out to you to discuss the S50 options. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    Thanks Chris, there is a good chance I will be an e36 M3 owner tomorrow (making an offer on one) and I am starting up on my research. I was originally thinking of motor swap but the car I am looking at is immaculate and I am just not sure I want to go down the swaping path.

    At any rate, I may be reaching out to you to discuss the S50 options. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
    That's great! I've always loved the e36 platform. That was one of my first cars. We have many options to choose from when it comes to performance mods in the e36. We can do an all out stage 3 build on the S50/S52 or we can go for an S54 swap with our stage 2 kit. We have one of them here at the shop right now. I'll try and shoot some pictures once I get her washed. We also have a purpose built track e36 here that has our s54 intake manifold conversion. I'll do a write up on that soon too.

    So many things to do yet there's so little time! Story of my life.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by digger Click here to enlarge
    no i just prefer to use logic and reason not guestimates
    Sorry a dynograph isn't a guestimate the data is right there it's not my problem you can't seem to process it.

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