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Thread: PTF E45 Log

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    PTF E45 Log

    Took a log of this evening to make sure everything still looks good and my LPFP is doing a decent job with the E85. It's not hitting the requested but does it look normal for running 45% E85? The car feels strong and smooth with the exception of at start up where it struggles for a couple of seconds.

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    Wouldn't worry about the req load vs. actual load deviation. People look at requested load as a target. The channel really is more of a limit. If you were ever to have actual load match up to requested load you'd run into load limit handling and all sorts of weirdness with timing. The main thing is that the actual load doesn't match or exceed requested load and that they're fairly close. Most importantly that there's no throttle closures, that boost is where it should be and that total wgdc applied isn't rising past some levels going up in the high RPMs that we found to be within safety margins for stock turbos.

    Given you're running an E85 blend more regularly the Walbro wouldn't be a bad idea for sure.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    Took a log of this evening to make sure everything still looks good and my LPFP is doing a decent job with the E85. It's not hitting the requested but does it look normal for running 45% E85? The car feels strong and smooth with the exception of at start up where it struggles for a couple of seconds.

    Click here to enlarge
    After this past 2 weeks and all the logs I have done watching my LPFP because of the upgrade, I am gonna jump in here and say you need to upgrade the lpfp. From about 4800 you are under 60psi except for a few bumps back up to req, then as you get higher in the range staying around 50 or lower which is not good. It may be holding up ok but who knows for how long running it down that low The walbro install is so easy its worth it just to get that back up a little closer to where it needs to be. If you are running E85 I would def do the upgrade.. D chime in here and let me know if I am a retard.

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    Your LPFP is taking a dive up top. Also post another log with a shift into 4th if you can. Also post STFT bank 1/2.

    The rec/actual load deviation is fine. Think of load req more as a limit, not a target.

    Imho, you shouldn't exceed 30% ethanol on the stock fuel system if you don't either have meth or LPFP upgrade.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Imho, you shouldn't exceed 30% ethanol on the stock fuel system if you don't either have meth or LPFP upgrade.
    Agreed
    PTF PROTuned | RB's | AMS FMIC | AR DP's | HPF Exhaust | CP-E DCI | Apex Arc 8's | 235/275 Star Specs |

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    I will do some homework on the Walboro pump. I remember reading the thread months ago on E90post. Does anyone offer this pump that is assembled and ready to go or do you need to follow the DIY?
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    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    Didn't you just get a new LPFP before you got that PTF E45 tune?

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    In my testing there was very little difference from a performance standpoint from 30% to 50%. Ran both mixtures on timing similar to yours at 20 psi tapering off to 17 on RB's at a 12.5 AFR and 12 AFR north of 6000 RPM... the only difference was the 30% mix didn't lean out where the 50% mix did.

    Try running that same map on 30%. probably 6 gallons on winter blend E85 and 5 gallons on summer blend.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    Didn't you just get a new LPFP before you got that PTF E45 tune?
    I am still on the original pump.
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    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    In my testing there was very little difference from a performance standpoint from 30% to 50%. Ran both mixtures on timing similar to yours at 20 psi tapering off to 17 on RB's at a 12.5 AFR and 12 AFR north of 6000 RPM... the only difference was the 30% mix didn't lean out where the 50% mix did.

    Try running that same map on 30%. probably 6 gallons on winter blend E85 and 5 gallons on summer blend.
    I wouldn't do this without getting the map adjusted for scalars and careful logging and review by us. Ben always think because something is one way on his car its like that everywhere else and always forgets his car is quite "unique" Click here to enlarge In vast majority of cases more power is available on E50 vs E30.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't do this without getting the map adjusted for scalars and careful logging and review by us. Ben always think because something is one way on his car its like that everywhere else and always forgets his car is quite "unique" Click here to enlarge In vast majority of cases more power is available on E50 vs E30.
    Nothing is unique about my car. I'm just the only one who cares to discuss tuning issues before they become more common. As you saw, others had the same annoying issues as I did when you thought it was my car. I'm just an early adopter Click here to enlarge

    I was harping about timing flatline since 2011, lo behold now everyone has had it at one point or another. I was the first to report flatlining and major corrections on 3-4 and 4-5, no one cared until it affected them. race logic made my car extremely unhappy, you said it was my car, then everyone else with 6AT had the same issue.

    And the scalar difference is granular when you're going from E30 to E45.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    one more point about those who think Cobb is the only way to tune:

    I fully agree having the ECU control all parameters is the best way to go about things. The problem with people who believe this is the fact Cobb does not have all the tables exposed, thus we are only working with a part of ECM. This explains why timing flatline cannot be fully fixed, why you need a TCU reflash to fix an issue unique to Cobb, and why certain things cannot be tuned out.

    When Cobb gets us all the pertinent tables and fixes through ATP or ATR, by all means it's a superior way to tune. Until that time comes, I am done wrestling with it. With the stacker combo, yes it's not perfect either, but it means less time tinkering and doing triple digits datalogging to dial in WGDC base / setpoint factor to tune out throttle closures, and more time enjoying my car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    one more point about those who think Cobb is the only way to tune:

    I fully agree having the ECU control all parameters is the best way to go about things. The problem with people who believe this is the fact Cobb does not have all the tables exposed, thus we are only working with a part of ECM. This explains why timing flatline cannot be fully fixed, why you need a TCU reflash to fix an issue unique to Cobb, and why certain things cannot be tuned out.

    When Cobb gets us all the pertinent tables and fixes through ATP or ATR, by all means it's a superior way to tune. Until that time comes, I am done wrestling with it. With the stacker combo, yes it's not perfect either, but it means less time tinkering and doing triple digits datalogging to dial in WGDC base / setpoint factor to tune out throttle closures, and more time enjoying my car.
    Did you put the RB's back on your car or are you sticking with the stock turbos?

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    I think you hit the ball out of the park with this one, nail on the head.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    one more point about those who think Cobb is the only way to tune:

    I fully agree having the ECU control all parameters is the best way to go about things. The problem with people who believe this is the fact Cobb does not have all the tables exposed, thus we are only working with a part of ECM. This explains why timing flatline cannot be fully fixed, why you need a TCU reflash to fix an issue unique to Cobb, and why certain things cannot be tuned out.

    When Cobb gets us all the pertinent tables and fixes through ATP or ATR, by all means it's a superior way to tune. Until that time comes, I am done wrestling with it. With the stacker combo, yes it's not perfect either, but it means less time tinkering and doing triple digits datalogging to dial in WGDC base / setpoint factor to tune out throttle closures, and more time enjoying my car.

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    Stacker FTW. Even if some day all flash tables are exposed, the flash offers adaptive absolute boost control, better learning algorithms, and stand alone meth kits integrate with the DME directly for a fool-proof failsafes, etc, I'm still going to want my in dash gauges. I don't know how people survive without them. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    So would the Walbro help with trims, or LPFP pressure or both? I have never been close to being maxed out as far as trims are concerned but as you can see, I'm getting down to around 50 PSI of the 72.48 requested.
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    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    If low pressure is dropping below 50 I'd suggest doing an in tank pump upgrade. Either the cheap inline or walbro replacement.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I'm pretty sure my lpfp is on its last leg. I got a p2a2d code the other day and bank two misfired. I was using the live data on my Cobb today and under a quick wot my lpfp pressure would spike as high as 89 and drop as low as 40. Needless to say ill be flashing back to a pump gas map until I decide which walbro to go with. 25k miles running about 40% e85 isn't too bad though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Nothing is unique about my car. I'm just the only one who cares to discuss tuning issues before they become more common. As you saw, others had the same annoying issues as I did when you thought it was my car. I'm just an early adopter Click here to enlarge

    I was harping about timing flatline since 2011, lo behold now everyone has had it at one point or another. I was the first to report flatlining and major corrections on 3-4 and 4-5, no one cared until it affected them. race logic made my car extremely unhappy, you said it was my car, then everyone else with 6AT had the same issue.

    And the scalar difference is granular when you're going from E30 to E45.
    Yeah, tell me about "early adopters" Click here to enlarge And yes, it turned out it wasn't just your car but in a pool of only a handful of early 6AT race code testers back then it sure looked like it was just your car. At least now race logic can be used without issues with the Alpina TCU flash Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    one more point about those who think Cobb is the only way to tune:

    I fully agree having the ECU control all parameters is the best way to go about things. The problem with people who believe this is the fact Cobb does not have all the tables exposed, thus we are only working with a part of ECM. This explains why timing flatline cannot be fully fixed, why you need a TCU reflash to fix an issue unique to Cobb, and why certain things cannot be tuned out.

    When Cobb gets us all the pertinent tables and fixes through ATP or ATR, by all means it's a superior way to tune. Until that time comes, I am done wrestling with it. With the stacker combo, yes it's not perfect either, but it means less time tinkering and doing triple digits datalogging to dial in WGDC base / setpoint factor to tune out throttle closures, and more time enjoying my car.
    Cracking the DME definitely presents its fair share of hurdles. A lot of flash tuners still can't tune higher than even 14psi, some can't get past 16psi without issues. They get into torque limits of all sorts. Many people take things for granted as its easy to fool the dme and play outside in terms of boost.

    "Boost control is not everything" - its only part of the story Click here to enlarge

    Look at what that PITA cracking and tuning through the DME/TCU has done for this platform though. Gave us way more fuel, made us realize the DME is a workhorse and a half with visibility and ability to timing correct each individual cylinder for timing saving many motors all these years. Yeah, the TCU intervenes and cries on its stock tune but its now solved too. The issue was hurting piggies too in many ways, not torque limits where they caused oscillations but it did cause flatlining and who knows if some healthy trannies went because they didn't have an Alpina TCU flash. In fact its very possible some high hp 6AT N54s in the past probably would've had no problems had they flashed with the Alpina software.

    In the end its never easy to do things right that's for sure. I guess I pick the hard way as its managed to reap huge rewards pushing this platform further. If we stayed with piggybacks we'd still be capped at 440-450whp for fuel and would still not be able to use alternative fuels such as E85 or be able to adjust VANOS or timing properly and not even to mention the level of in-depth datalogging and other handy features that Cobb brought to the table so far.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Stacker FTW. Even if some day all flash tables are exposed, the flash offers adaptive absolute boost control, better learning algorithms, and stand alone meth kits integrate with the DME directly for a fool-proof failsafes, etc, I'm still going to want my in dash gauges. I don't know how people survive without them. Click here to enlarge
    Stacking for tuning is weak Click here to enlarge In-dash gauges are the best piggy feature
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 03-07-2013 at 09:50 AM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Stacker FTW. Even if some day all flash tables are exposed, the flash offers adaptive absolute boost control, better learning algorithms, and stand alone meth kits integrate with the DME directly for a fool-proof failsafes, etc, I'm still going to want my in dash gauges. I don't know how people survive without them. Click here to enlarge
    I'm afraid of that day. I know there are still many, many tables to crack if the tables in GM ecu's are any example, and its easy to get lost in 100 tables and even more triggers. But if that day comes I'm sure the jb will adapt. Two standard injector drivers, one for each cylinder bank, may come in handy in the near future, and is a cheap addition...

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    Just ordered the Walbro pump. Now hopefully I don't mess up my pump in the process. Is the swap pretty simple once you get the original pump out @Terry@BMS?
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    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, tell me about "early adopters" Click here to enlarge And yes, it turned out it wasn't just your car but in a pool of only a handful of early 6AT race code testers back then it sure looked like it was just your car. At least now race logic can be used without issues with the Alpina TCU flash Click here to enlarge



    Cracking the DME definitely presents its fair share of hurdles. A lot of flash tuners still can't tune higher than even 14psi, some can't get past 16psi without issues. They get into torque limits of all sorts. Many people take things for granted as its easy to fool the dme and play outside in terms of boost.

    "Boost control is not everything" - its only part of the story Click here to enlarge

    Look at what that PITA cracking and tuning through the DME/TCU has done for this platform though. Gave us way more fuel, made us realize the DME is a workhorse and a half with visibility and ability to timing correct each individual cylinder for timing saving many motors all these years. Yeah, the TCU intervenes and cries on its stock tune but its now solved too. The issue was hurting piggies too in many ways, not torque limits where they caused oscillations but it did cause flatlining and who knows if some healthy trannies went because they didn't have an Alpina TCU flash. In fact its very possible some high hp 6AT N54s in the past probably would've had no problems had they flashed with the Alpina software.

    In the end its never easy to do things right that's for sure. I guess I pick the hard way as its managed to reap huge rewards pushing this platform further. If we stayed with piggybacks we'd still be capped at 440-450whp for fuel and would still not be able to use alternative fuels such as E85 or be able to adjust VANOS or timing properly and not even to mention the level of in-depth datalogging and other handy features that Cobb brought to the table so far.



    Stacking for tuning is weak Click here to enlarge In-dash gauges are the best piggy feature
    Basically that is your long-winded version of you agreeing with me. Running a flash tune standalone without full access to all the tables is "weak". Anyway we all got our own opinions on the matter, and you got a product to sell, so to each their own.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Stacker FTW. Even if some day all flash tables are exposed, the flash offers adaptive absolute boost control, better learning algorithms, and stand alone meth kits integrate with the DME directly for a fool-proof failsafes, etc, I'm still going to want my in dash gauges. I don't know how people survive without them. Click here to enlarge
    if cobb ever gets on their ass and opens up more tables, I got a perfectly good boost bypass solenoid for meth safety sitting here waiting for that day! Imo the in dash gauges arent too big a deal. You can mount an AP and live monitor!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Basically that is your long-winded version of you agreeing with me. Running a flash tune standalone without full access to all the tables is "weak". Anyway we all got our own opinions on the matter, and you got a product to sell, so to each their own.
    I had an Aquamist HFS-4 running with Cobb on my car well before deciding to give PTF a shot. I guess becoming vendor has opened a door for comments such as "you got a product to sell" Click here to enlarge Unfair judgement but I'm not surprised
    Click here to enlarge

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