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  1. #76
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    This looks really good, beyond good. Can't wait to see final install pics.

    This is going to be a really awesome and extraordinarily efficient N54; and it will be interesting to see how the DME reacts to this much more potential. With the emphasis on the O2s being correctly installed in the native positions, there are no more excuses it seems.

    Rob

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    you might wanna check these guys out seems a bit more beefy then level 10 IMO.

    http://www.btamotorsports.com.au/ind...for-fg-falcon/
    This is the first I've heard of them doing an upgrade... Anyone know anything about these guys or this upgrade?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    This is the first I've heard of them doing an upgrade... Anyone know anything about these guys or this upgrade?
    not sure i just emailed them, i wouldn't mind shipping my blown trans off to them to be a Guinea pig for development and when i get it back ill have it installed in along with Stage 3's Click here to enlarge Worlds fastest E93 here i come
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  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted5 Click here to enlarge
    I could be wrong but isn't dzenno the only one to hit such a high torque number which was mainly because he had all that headwork done?
    It was all the RBs combined with the N20 TMAP sensor that allowed him to run higher boost. The headwork certainly was an upgrade over OEM, but that wasn't the root cause of the monster torque.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajsalida Click here to enlarge
    Wasn't somebody (Sikh) looking into 517trans.com for AT upgrade? Supposedly an ex Level 10 person.
    Yea, he's got a thread over on E90Post probing around for 6AT upgrades and if anyone knows something. Level10 is really the only "known" one on the forums, but hopefully someone will step forward and legitimately upgrade the trans. A DCT swap doesn't sound like a worthwhile solution either, because (until Sticky's car is running flawless) there is still no proven upgrade for the DCT (expenses for the swap withstanding).


    That BTA trans upgrade looks legit, but is that the same ZF the 135/335 has?
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  5. #80
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge


    That BTA trans upgrade looks legit, but is that the same ZF the 135/335 has?
    No the transmissions we have are the ZF 6hp19/21. They make a zf6hp26 for some reason(demand?) but I'm sure if they get into BMWs they can make some money, but they are located in Australia :/
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  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    not sure i just emailed them, i wouldn't mind shipping my blown trans off to them to be a Guinea pig for development and when i get it back ill have it installed in along with Stage 3's Click here to enlarge Worlds fastest E93 here i come
    Do they have any prices listed or turn around times? Looks like a much more thorough upgrade on paper.
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  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    They make a zf6hp26 for some reason(demand?) but I'm sure if they get into BMWs they can make some money, but they are located in Australia :/
    The Ford & Holden crowd basically dominate the aftermarket scene in Australia. Just not sure if they'd be willing to get into BMW's since majority of those customers are in the US or Europe.
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  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The Ford & Holden crowd basically dominate the aftermarket scene in Australia. Just not sure if they'd be willing to get into BMW's since majority of those customers are in the US or Europe.
    I'd be interested to know if they have performed this upgrade on other vehicles and the results?
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    Tony has MT.

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    Just an update. Worked all weekend. Trying to finish up today while doing a million other things. Pulled the LPFP back out of the tank and ran a Y on the parallel pump set up instead of a T, not sure why I even ran a T in the first place. Changed the plugged to one step colder NGK gapped at .022", all fluids are in, no leaks, the clutch line is leaking, and I need to address that so I can bleed the clutch and the we will fire. We are firing before putting the subframe in so we can check for any leaks. I updated once we fire it with in car pics, and the video. You cant see much though.

    Edit: Clutch line is leaking at the slave cylinder, of course something stupid like this is going to happen. Have had it off 4 times now and it wont stop leaking, might have to order a new line.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 02-11-2013 at 06:19 PM.

  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Just an update. Worked all weekend. Trying to finish up today while doing a million other things. Pulled the LPFP back out of the tank and ran a Y on the parallel pump set up instead of a T, not sure why I even ran a T in the first place. Changed the plugged to one step colder NGK gapped at .022", all fluids are in, no leaks, the clutch line is leaking, and I need to address that so I can bleed the clutch and the we will fire. We are firing before putting the subframe in so we can check for any leaks. I updated once we fire it with in car pics, and the video. You cant see much though.

    Edit: Clutch line is leaking at the slave cylinder, of course something stupid like this is going to happen. Have had it off 4 times now and it wont stop leaking, might have to order a new line.
    NOOOOOO, lol I've been refreshing this page all day for updates...SO exited!! Click here to enlarge
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  12. #87
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    Sounds like it's time for some green Loctite lol j/k
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  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    i never flatlined on my car on the IA08S DME so we will see with the new DME and engine i got , when my trans started to fail was slipping bad in 2nd gear , 3rd and would not shift into 5th.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp7-aYAJBrE
    So would you say that the level 10 is in fact an "upgrade"




  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Just an update. Worked all weekend. Trying to finish up today while doing a million other things. Pulled the LPFP back out of the tank and ran a Y on the parallel pump set up instead of a T, not sure why I even ran a T in the first place. Changed the plugged to one step colder NGK gapped at .022", all fluids are in, no leaks, the clutch line is leaking, and I need to address that so I can bleed the clutch and the we will fire. We are firing before putting the subframe in so we can check for any leaks. I updated once we fire it with in car pics, and the video. You cant see much though.

    Edit: Clutch line is leaking at the slave cylinder, of course something stupid like this is going to happen. Have had it off 4 times now and it wont stop leaking, might have to order a new line.
    Okay, well in the best interests of the community fire it up real quick so we can get a taste of the exhaust note Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
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  15. #90
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
    According to LMs post after he had L10 fix his trans, there were 3 things upgraded:
    1) New torque converter with slightly higher stall
    2) Reworked valvebody with fluid pressure increased from the stock 60-70psi to 130 psi.
    3) New front pump with volume increased from 2qt's/30 seconds to 3 qt's/30 second

    Perhaps its worth a call to L10 to ask what just doing the valvebody would net you as I suspect the pump is internal to the trans requiring disassembly. In other words, if the converter is fine to 500+wtq, can the valvebody alone get the trans to 500+. Maybe not but since its a cheap and easy upgrade, it might be worth looking into instead of waiting for the trans to slip if you have RBs.

    I also wonder if an additional trans oil cooler would help. Need to see oil temps but my guess it might help delay slipping, esp in warm weather.

    Tony, sorry to thread jack. Great work and way to move the ball down the field!
    Click here to enlarge

  16. #91
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
    According to LMs post after he had L10 fix his trans, there were 3 things upgraded:
    1) New torque converter with slightly higher stall
    2) Reworked valvebody with fluid pressure increased from the stock 60-70psi to 130 psi.
    3) New front pump with volume increased from 2qt's/30 seconds to 3 qt's/30 second

    Perhaps its worth a call to L10 to ask what just doing the valvebody would net you as I suspect the pump is internal to the trans requiring disassembly. In other words, if the converter is fine to 500+wtq, can the valvebody alone get the trans to 500+. Maybe not but since its a cheap and easy upgrade, it might be worth looking into instead of waiting for the trans to slip if you have RBs.

    I also wonder if an additional trans oil cooler would help. Need to see oil temps but my guess it might help delay slipping, esp in warm weather.

    Tony, sorry to thread jack. Great work and way to move the ball down the field!
    Click here to enlarge
    We've already acknowledged the "heart" of the Level10 upgrade, but both enrita & that thread you quoted acknowledge that the Level10 complete upgrade taps out at 700 WTQ. No idea what the Valvebody + OEM TQ Converter are capable independently, but I've also already said this -- If you're running RBs to their true potential (21 psi midrange) with just Pump Gas + Meth (Not even Race Gas and/or E85), you're around 650 WTQ and are in the components "operating safety margin". The low end torque generated by the Vargas Stage 3s (or even Stage 2s/RB Turbos running E85 blends or Race Gas) are easily going to overshoot the 700 WTQ limitation.

    In closing, the 6ATs really need somebody to crack the TCM to reprogram it to be more TQ-friendly, especially as we continue to approach 750 WHP+/800 WTQ+


    ***If Sticky/Tony feel like the 6AT discussion has taken us OT from the Stage 3 pics, got no problem continuing this discussion in an independent thread
    Last edited by benzy89; 02-12-2013 at 12:48 AM.
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  17. #92
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    We've already acknowledged the "heart" of the Level10 upgrade, but both enrita & that thread you quoted acknowledge that the Level10 complete upgrade taps out at 700 WTQ. No idea what the Valvebody + OEM TQ Converter are capable independently, but I've also already said this -- If you're running RBs to their true potential (21 psi midrange) with just Pump Gas + Meth (Not even Race Gas and/or E85), you're around 650 WTQ and are in the components "operating safety margin". The low end torque generated by the Vargas Stage 3s (or even Stage 2s/RB Turbos running E85 blends or Race Gas) are easily going to overshoot the 700 WTQ limitation.

    In closing, the 6ATs really need somebody to crack the TCM to reprogram it to be more TQ-friendly, especially as we continue to approach 750 WHP+/800 WTQ+


    ***If Sticky/Tony feel like the 6AT discussion has taken us OT from the Stage 3 pics, got no problem continuing this discussion in an independent thread
    Honestly, i don't see a hybrid stock frame turbo making close to 700wtq regardless of e85 or racegas. After a couple discussions i've had the last couple days with people far more informed than i am i feel like even 650wtq isn't going to happen. It may be a possible for a pass or two on the dyno in perfect conditions but not something you should ever try to drive on the street.

    Stage 3s are another story completely.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The low end torque generated by the Vargas Stage 3s (or even Stage 2s/RB Turbos running E85 blends or Race Gas) are easily going to overshoot the 700 WTQ limitation.

    In closing, the 6ATs really need somebody to crack the TCM to reprogram it to be more TQ-friendly, especially as we continue to approach 750 WHP+/800 WTQ+
    So, we are going to see 750 WTQ next week?

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, i don't see a hybrid stock frame turbo making close to 700wtq regardless of e85 or racegas. After a couple discussions i've had the last couple days with people far more informed than i am i feel like even 650wtq isn't going to happen. It may be a possible for a pass or two on the dyno in perfect conditions but not something you should ever try to drive on the street.

    Stage 3s are another story completely.
    I mean, Dzenno's car is running 553 WHP / 631 WTQ on Pump Gas + Meth; 22.5 psi midrange. SO you don't think there's another 20 WTQ to make 650 & then maybe another 70 WTQ to hit the 700? Especially when you run a E40-50 blend or straight C16?

    Is it difficult to do on RBs? Absolutely & there's no saying how long everything will last at those levels (the motors fine, but the turbos?). But if this it what the RBs are capable of, 600 WHP/700 WTQ should be a walk in the park for the Stage 3s.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    So, we are going to see 750 WTQ next week?

    Click here to enlarge
    Would it really surprise you that much? Lol, prob not on straight pump gas but with Meth? Shouldn't be too hard, but who knows until they actually start tuning the N54 with Stage 3s and if everything plays nicely.
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    "Easily overshooting 700 WTQ" would surprise me big time no matter what alcohols or race gas you pour in.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    "Easily overshooting 700 WTQ" would surprise me big time no matter what alcohols or race gas you pour in.
    high boost, low revs... will hit 700 i'll put money on it lol

    ed: we need fuelling fix! 100% e85 no messing around Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    you might wanna check these guys out seems a bit more beefy then level 10 IMO.

    http://www.btamotorsports.com.au/ind...for-fg-falcon/
    Might check them out they aren't exactly local but I could make the drive down there if they can do it.

    This is what we share the 6AT with

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    This speculation is crazy.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMW86 Click here to enlarge
    Might check them out they aren't exactly local but I could make the drive down there if they can do it.

    This is what we share the 6AT with http://youtu.be/qiQYdkgS2sQ
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    We've already acknowledged the "heart" of the Level10 upgrade, but both enrita & that thread you quoted acknowledge that the Level10 complete upgrade taps out at 700 WTQ. No idea what the Valvebody + OEM TQ Converter are capable independently, but I've also already said this -- If you're running RBs to their true potential (21 psi midrange) with just Pump Gas + Meth (Not even Race Gas and/or E85), you're around 650 WTQ and are in the components "operating safety margin". The low end torque generated by the Vargas Stage 3s (or even Stage 2s/RB Turbos running E85 blends or Race Gas) are easily going to overshoot the 700 WTQ limitation.

    In closing, the 6ATs really need somebody to crack the TCM to reprogram it to be more TQ-friendly, especially as we continue to approach 750 WHP+/800 WTQ+


    ***If Sticky/Tony feel like the 6AT discussion has taken us OT from the Stage 3 pics, got no problem continuing this discussion in an independent thread
    I don't think we're on the same page for everything and I don't recall seeing anyone state exactly what was in the L10 upgrade which is why I linked and posted it. I think we agree the L10 upgrades are minor but where we diverge is what is the likely power/torque levels from a specific scenario (street RBs/ST2, vs maxed out RB glory runsh or St3) and what one should get for their $.

    My 2c: If the average RB/st2 guy isn't going to go beyond 500wtq on the street and wants something that will live up to that point, maybe a $700 valvebody swapped out with the trans still in the car for maybe $1000-$1200 total investment is worth it, if the parts work/survive. For guys making 600wtq with 6AT, the $4500 L10 rebuilt trans is perhaps the only game in town and it may not be worth it to some given how close you are to the edge as you said. Beyond 600wtq, you're correct- the L10 upgrade is probably not going to cut it.

    A real trans upgrade with new hardened input and output shafts, high torque clutches and ideally a TCU reprogram is what's required. That said, as with all upgrades for this platform, someone needs to do the dev work to get us there and I suspect it will be a while. Money talks. I'd guess L10 can do it but making custom shafts and clutches is going to be some $.

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