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  1. #76
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    Does it really matter what engine is in what family? Lol Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Does it really matter what engine is in what family? Lol Click here to enlarge
    Well now it does.

  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    With you saying the M54 relation to the M52, S52, M50, S50, and M52TU does not seem to exist.



    The S54 is much different due to being a higher revving M motor but these are all in the same BMW engine family. The S50 and M50 as well.
    Please quote where I said the m54 doesn't relate. I said it did from the beginning. I've seen the internals of all these motors. Even had crazy talks about hybrid setups with bluejeansonfire about this years ago when he was building his m54.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    The s54 is not m50 based. You can not put an s54 head on an m5x. It's a different engine family lol.
    Here...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Here...
    That quote says nothing about the m54 relating to the m50/2's... It's just contains a factual statement about non interchangeable parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    What's a 2JZ?
    elephant




  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    That quote says nothing about the m54 relating to the m50/2's... It's just contains a factual statement about non interchangeable parts.
    You said they are not the same engine family. That entire line is all related design wise. All of it...

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    You guys are really just $#@!ing up this vendors thread. Just saying, its difficult to read the real updates here. Don't get me wrong, its an interesting topic....
    Click here to enlarge
    Join the largest N5X Enthusiasts Group! 1200+ Members Strong!
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/n5xenthusiasts/

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You said they are not the same engine family. That entire line is all related design wise. All of it...
    You know what sticky, I hope one day you get the opportunity to build both of these motors, or watch somebody build them. Then you can tell me how closely related they really are. I'll just leave it at that. I'm not responding about it anymore.

    Now everyone can get back to admiring $#@!ty exhaust shop quality flux core welds.

  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    You know what sticky, I hope one day you get the opportunity to build both of these motors, or watch somebody build them. Then you can tell me how closely related they really are. I'll just leave it at that. I'm not responding about it anymore.
    We have the people here who have built all these motors to their highest respective levels. I'm telling you what they tell me as well as what I see.

    Look, that inline-6 engine line is all related. The M52 in Europe was aluminum block. The M52TU heads and the M54 heads are interchangeable I believe or something along those lines. Regardless, even when you look up the motors for discussion they are mentioned as being part of the same engine family because they are. The N54/N52/N55's are a new line.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    You guys are really just $#@!ing up this vendors thread. Just saying, its difficult to read the real updates here. Don't get me wrong, its an interesting topic....
    You're right but what we're going to do is just move the update to a new clean thread as we don't have updates to talk about right now anyway. The vendor will get their clean nice thread and we get to discuss freely. Everyone wins Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I hope you're referring to the S54 as the modern masterpiece.
    No, that was the engine of the year long time ago. Take another guess Click here to enlarge
    Even BMW M-division, which is a bit slow, has seen the light. S54 was dumped and replaced by S65, with the modern aluminum block. You want to get rid of the weight in general and especially at the front axle. Iron block was a great invention perhaps 100 years ago? Iron is cheap, but now even M-division does not want to be cheap and produces modern aluminum blocks only, even if they are more expensive.

  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    S54 was dumped and replaced by S65, with the modern aluminum block.
    For racing purposes, ya. But that doesn't make the S65 equivalent to the S54 is power potential. The S54 is stronger thanks to its block I'm sorry to say.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Iron block was a great invention perhaps 100 years ago?
    Still used along with iron sleeves for big HP builds.

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    7 out of 8 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    yes, yes


    Very good! I questions the fueling aspect more than anything though... DI is tricky... very tricky. EVO, STI, Supra, GTR and so forth are PI and simple to work on. The DI platforms had it much harder when it came to upgrade the pumps and it was a common effort between the VW and Mazda crew until they got something figured out. They also had a much lower level limitation before that; hence motivating the need to upgrade. I guarantee that if this gets figured out; it will be a major step forward... one that will catapult this platform.
    DI is definitely tricky, no two ways around it. That said, there was a time when PI was tricky too, and it was a time characterized by ECU/tuning options that were archaic in comparison to what we have today. And things progressed for the exact reason you said...guys hitting the limit and figuring out how to push it further. One day, DI will be easy, but getting there rarely is Click here to enlarge.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    A 1200 whp motor was built for a purpose? You don't say. Can you, say, take an N54 and build it to be the fastest BMW in the mile in the USA? Nah, you can't, but you can do it with any of the iron block inline-6's, I wonder why?
    Wait...you've taken an N54 and tried making it the fastest BMW in the mile? You've seriously been holding out on all of us! Tell us more! This is HUGE NEWS!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    M50/M52/S50/S52/S54/ go for it. And these are all part of similar basic design with the S54 being considering the final evolution of the M50 inline-6 engine line, where have you been?
    My apologies, I didn't get my information from Wikipedia, I'll correct that going forward. Based on that logic, you should throw the M20 in there too.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Yes, there is a guy here who specifically decided to keep the high compression for better response. It's no secret the S54 internals and block are of higher quality, no comparison really.
    Nice, who was it? And was it stock internals, or stock compression level? Big difference between stock internals vs. doing rods and pistons of a different design that happen to have the same compression ratio as the stock ones they yanked out of there.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The M54 is the weakest out of all those past inline-6's mentioned. Partially due to the block. M50 is iron, S50, S52, S54, M52.
    The North American M52 is actually strongest because it retained the same M50 iron block. Seriously, do I need to give you people a history lesson every single time?
    Wait...so the iron M52 block (block only, no crank, rods, anything else, and not the aluminum tu block from the z3) is stronger than the IDENTICAL iron M50 block (except for the observation hole for the crank trigger on the M52)??? Blocks that are functionally identical...aren't identical? Jeez, we must really need some history lessons! And this whole time, the entire BMW community was thinking that the M52 was desirable due to a forged crank not found in the m50s! School us, oh mighty schooler!

    Oh and BTW, the almighty Lambo/Audi V10s and the GTR's VR38DETT are...wait for it...and don't stop reading after the drop...ALUMINUM BLOCKS! Dear god, stop the madness! ALUMINUM! Surely they can't handle ANY power can they??? Oh wait...they make these big holes in the block with fancy machines, press these magical things in the picture below into the big holes, blink their eyes, call Mr. Miyagi, and make 1500whp.
    Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The 2JZ-GTE was easier to get to 1000+
    Is that so? Do you know when the first 2JZ making 1K happened?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    and would get there much faster today.
    Certainly would, due in no small part to the great advances that have come about from guys pushing it and other platforms with similar hurdles at the time.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Tuning was not as evolved back then as it is now. It should technically be easier and faster now with better turbos, better fueling, more fuels, better ECU's, etc.
    Boy, it sure wasn't. Aw shucks, I wonder how things got so advanced! Magic happens over time, I guess.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The fact is the 2JZ is a better design for pure potential than the N54.
    It sure is a better platform.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They aren't similar, they aren't the same thing, they never will be.
    You don't say. Now I know why I couldn't get that N54 head to sit on that 2JZ block! Thanks for the protip!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And you can get an aftermarket ECU that is plug and play for cheap whereas on the N54 how many do you have handling direct injection that are plug and play? Go ahead, list them. Another area the 2JZ wins.
    And tell me, how long did it take for the 2JZ to get that? Believe it or not, the 2JZ was also a young platform once upon a time.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly my point. N54 does not equal 2JZ I want to stop hearing it already, enough.
    Are people trolling your inbox with N54=EURO 2JZ messages or something? I really don't see many who are making that argument... I certainly never have.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's absurd.
    Yes, this whole thing is absurd.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It has no benefits over the 2JZ
    BUT IT'S A BMW! You told us that they design more award winning engines than anyone else, which means that the n54 has to be better! It's like Sex Panther...it's made from real bits of panther, so it's gotta be good. If anything, n54=Sex Panther.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The more complicated fuel system which does not offer as much room to grow at this moment in time
    Fixed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    the open deck block
    Yup, that's already been mentioned plenty of times, and I've already shown how people on other platforms fix it.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    the weaker internals, and the more complicated tuning necessary.
    Now we really know why your car is taking so long...it's getting a 2JZ in the front driving the rear wheels, and a carb'd 572 BBC in the trunk driving the front wheels! Because with your logic, why would anyone EVER bother to develop ANY platform EVER?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Just because BMW built a turbo-6 that can be tuned doesn't make it equal to some of the best aftermarket powerplants in the world. Just accept the N54 for being an N54 and stop trying to act like it is as capable as something else or that it is something it is not. ACCEPT IT FOR WHAT IT IS.
    Keep on, Don Quixote, set all of us N54 owners straight. And keep building that time machine so you can go back in time and meet the enthusiasts and aftermarket engineers/techs with 2JZs, RB26s, 46G3s, EJ257s, a K20/B18/Honda anything, a VQ/R family motor, a Gallardo/R8, an M/S5x, an S54, a VR6, etc. early on in their aftermarket developmental lifecycle, and tell each and every one of them that their _____ is not equal to the best powerplants in the world, that they need to stop acting like like it is as capable as something else or that it is something it is not, that they need to accept their ____ for being a _______, oh and one more time, ACCEPT IT FOR WHAT IT IS. Go to the 90s/early 2000s and tell the Honduh guys the above, to give up, and do this:
    Click here to enlarge

    With your kind of winning attitude, we will see so much more innovation and development in this country! With your brand of winning optimism, curiosity, open mindedness, and insatiable desire to push the envelope and improve things fully imparted upon all of the car owners from all the different time periods, they will certainly unite to create a super mega big block that will become self aware and use it's earth shattering torque to cure homosexuality!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    I can understand you relating the m54 because it is literally almost exactly the same except aluminum block. S54 is not the same block design. If it was you would see people interchanging parts. You can't. Yet you see "frankenstein" builds made up of m52's and s50's, but no s54 parts hmmmmmm. Maybe your confused and thinking of the euro s50? That's the only thing I can relate to an s54.
    QFT.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    I think you are reading over my posts too fast because you seem to be saying what I just said, but making sound like I said the opposite.
    He has a remarkable ability to do that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict
    You know what sticky, I hope one day you get the opportunity to build both of these motors, or watch somebody build them. Then you can tell me how closely related they really are. I'll just leave it at that. I'm not responding about it anymore.

    Now everyone can get back to admiring $#@!ty exhaust shop quality flux core welds.


    LOL on both points, repped while I still can.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    All I got from it is that 2jz>s65...
    He showed too much of his hand. He's dropping a 2JZ in that black hole M3 for sure.
    Last edited by DefactoM6; 02-06-2013 at 01:29 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Wait...you've taken an N54 and tried making it the fastest BMW in the mile? You've seriously been holding out on all of us! Tell us more! This is HUGE NEWS!
    The huge news is that nobody has and nobody is going to. Please, prove me wrong though.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    My apologies, I didn't get my information from Wikipedia, I'll correct that going forward. Based on that logic, you should throw the M20 in there too.
    Why would the M20 be thrown in when the M50 is a complete redesign and new architecture whereas the M52 is an evolution of the design? Well?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Nice, who was it?
    It's in the S54 forum. Chris posted about how the guy wanted high compression and how they wanted to see what the S54 could do. Apparently there is more in it as well but compression remained stock. Would love to see what it would do with a head spacer.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Wait...so the iron M52 block (block only, no crank, rods, anything else, and not the aluminum tu block from the z3) is stronger than the IDENTICAL iron M50 block (except for the observation hole for the crank trigger on the M52)??? Blocks that are functionally identical...aren't identical?
    You seemed to have some trouble comprehending what I wrote. I wrote M54 is the weakest due to its block, not M52. I said the M52 is strong like the M50 BEACUSE it is basically the same thing. Not sure what you are trying to write here but clearly you had some comprehension trouble, no biggie.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Oh and BTW, the almighty Lambo/Audi V10s and the GTR's VR38DETT are...wait for it...and don't stop reading after the drop...ALUMINUM BLOCKS! Dear god, stop the madness! ALUMINUM! Surely they can't handle ANY power can they???
    Nobody said they aluminum can't handle power but those are also closed deck blocks with much more material. The inline-6 BMW's with aluminum have tighter bore spacing due to the longer block compared to a V8 and how BMW wants to sit them back making them as compact as possible for 50/50 weight distribution. So an open deck aluminum block with tight bore spacing won't be quite as strong as a big V8/V10 with more material now will it? You forget the discussion was the N54 block? That's ok, not surprised.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Is that so? Do you know when the first 2JZ making 1K happened?
    Was it before the N54? And didn't the big HP tuning scene really ignite with the numbers the 2JZ was hitting? 1000 hp wasn't even though possible from tiny motors at one point and then the tuning scene exploded after the Fast and Furious effect especially for the Supra didn't it? What do I know, I was just following supraforums closely back in those days reading everything I could.

    I can tell you this much though, the 2JZ hit 1000 whp, 1500 whp, and more before the N54. And the N54 has been on the market for 8 years now buddy, it's not fresh.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Certainly would, due in no small part to the great advances that have come about from guys pushing it and other platforms with similar hurdles at the time.
    Thanks for repeating me.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Boy, it sure wasn't. Aw shucks, I wonder how things got so advanced! Magic happens over time, I guess.
    8 years isn't long enough for the N54? How many does it need? 18? The S54 did what in 8 years? The 2JZ did what in 8 years? N54 sure look beastly eh?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    It sure is a better platform.
    No kidding, exactly what I have been saying regarding POWER POTENTIAL.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    You don't say. Now I know why I couldn't get that N54 head to sit on that 2JZ block! Thanks for the protip!
    Seems people are still having trouble with this sinking in.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Are people trolling your inbox with N54=EURO 2JZ messages or something? I really don't see many who are making that argument... I certainly never have.
    Then you should try reading an N54 forum sometime.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    BUT IT'S A BMW! You told us that they design more award winning engines than anyone else, which means that the n54 has to be better! It's like Sex Panther...it's made from real bits of panther, so it's gotta be good. If anything, n54=Sex Panther.
    BMW is the best engine builder in history, all time, the best, period. But what does a 1500 horsepower 2JZGTE have to do with say an S70/2 in engine building skill?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Fixed.
    Not really because direct injection has a limited injection window due to where it has to inject which becomes limited as RPM increases. Seriously now? This is basic stuff man, read up and come back to me.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Yup, that's already been mentioned plenty of times, and I've already shown how people on other platforms fix it.
    You can't "fix" it you only "mask" the problem.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Now we really know why your car is taking so long...it's getting a 2JZ in the front driving the rear wheels, and a carb'd 572 BBC in the trunk driving the front wheels! Because with your logic, why would anyone EVER bother to develop ANY platform EVER?
    My motor will be making more power than any N54 with less time on the market. If it was direct injected it wouldn't be capable of 8400+ rpm with the power it will make as I would have to be making "at this time" fuel system excuses. Plus my car has a DCT which was the majority of the hold up. If it was manual, it would already be on the road. But... that doesn't affect the motor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Keep on, Don Quixote, set all of us N54 owners straight. And keep building that time machine so you can go back in time and meet the enthusiasts and aftermarket
    Do something with your N54 worth mentioning. I'd rather walk than be stuck modifying it for equal power to an S65. Regardless, I mean, it's basically done. Would you like to race or do you need a different motor? Actually, ya, you need a different motor.

  16. #91
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    all very valid points but now i just want to know what "sex panther" is? i must know!!
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    all very valid points but now i just want to know what "sex panther" is? i must know!!
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    lol... works 60% of the time everytime
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The huge news is that nobody has and nobody is going to. Please, prove me wrong though.
    No thanks. I have no desire to turn a daily driven street car into a full on race car that can only be run a few times between teardowns. For me, street cars are street cars, and race cars are race cars. And if I were picking a platform to do the TX mile with, I'd pick a different platform.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Why would the M20 be thrown in when the M50 is a complete redesign and new architecture whereas the M52 is an evolution of the design? Well?
    Uhhh...because you threw the S54 and the euro S50s into the same group as the M/S5x, when they do not belong there? One of the downsides of getting info about engine architecture from Wikipedia, no worries. The M20 is far more related to the M50 than the S54 ever was, if you saw an M50nv and a M20 torn down, side by side, you would see very clearly that the M50nv is an evolution of the M20. But here, don't take my word for it, read it from an engineer who knows a few things about these engines and what you can or can't do...someone infinitely more qualified than either one of us is to comment on these matters. Notice he addresses the swappability of M54 parts in his discussion of M/S5x swaps, yet there is conspicuous absence of the S54 and euro S50s from the discussion? Hmm, I wonder why? http://www.bmw-m50.com/m5x-overview/

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You seemed to have some trouble comprehending what I wrote. I wrote M54 is the weakest due to its block, not M52. I said the M52 is strong like the M50 BEACUSE it is basically the same thing. Not sure what you are trying to write here but clearly you had some comprehension trouble, no biggie.
    See below...your words, not mine.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    The North American M52 is actually strongest because it retained the same M50 iron block.
    This is the problem with trying to spin everything for argument's sake...you get confused, talk in circles, have severe issues comprehending and absorbing information, and tend to forget when you dish out conflicting information. It's why I like sticking to the facts, something you have trouble doing when you're trying to argue. And yes, the M54 is the weakest due to the aluminum block and long crank. M52 cranks are stronger than m50s, and the M50/52 blocks are basically identical.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Nobody said they aluminum can't handle power but those are also closed deck blocks with much more material. The inline-6 BMW's with aluminum have tighter bore spacing due to the longer block compared to a V8 and how BMW wants to sit them back making them as compact as possible for 50/50 weight distribution. So an open deck aluminum block with tight bore spacing won't be quite as strong as a big V8/V10 with more material now will it?
    So you're saying that the S54 and the M/S5xes don't suffer from the same issues? And did you totally skip the part where I cited the deck plate liners used in built Hondas? And the fact that they machine enough material out of the GTT and built VRs to do the same thing, giving them the rigidity they need to hold the power? The single biggest difference between the built GTTs and VRs and the N54 is that nobody has even tried it on an N54 yet. Reading BMW's promotional material gets in the way of you understanding the issue.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You forget the discussion was the N54 block? That's ok, not surprised.
    This from the same person who was going on tirades about the 2JZ? Dude, you crack me up.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    And didn't the big HP tuning scene really ignite with the numbers the 2JZ was hitting? 1000 hp wasn't even though possible from tiny motors at one point and then the tuning scene exploded after the Fast and Furious effect especially for the Supra didn't it?
    The Supra definitely had a very large effect on big HP, but there was arguably even more significant development coming from the domestics, hondas, 4G63s, etc. at the same time. Hell, HPA and EIP had 700whp VR6es back in 99. And yes, 1,000 hp was happening out of small engines before FnF. Vinny Ten cracked 1,000whp on C16 in his drag car in late 2000...Paisley wasn't that far behind. And these were drag motors that didn't exactly last long between teardowns. They were fine for drag stuff, and that was about it. There were a number of issues, but it had little to do with the physical engine itself...tuning and everything associated with it sucked. Variable valve timing was a pain in the ass that people didn't know how to deal with. The school of thought as recently as 2002-2003 was that you had to build a 2JZ if you wanted to have more than 600whp, reliably...nearly 10 years after the 2JZ made it's debut. And let's not beat around the bush, if you are running 93 only, that number isn't massively different today.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    What do I know, I was just following supraforums closely back in those days reading everything I could.
    Supraforums. Makes you an arbiter of EVERYTHING!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    I can tell you this much though, the 2JZ hit 1000 whp, 1500 whp, and more before the N54. And the N54 has been on the market for 8 years now buddy, it's not fresh. 8 years isn't long enough for the N54? How many does it need? 18? The S54 did what in 8 years? The 2JZ did what in 8 years? N54 sure look beastly eh?
    Considering the Supra debuted in early 1993, I'd hope so Click here to enlarge. Lol seriously though, it was 7 1/2 years before Vinny Ten cracked 1,000, and he had been professionally drag racing the car for 3 years before that. Not to mention the parallel development that was taking place at the time, something the N54 is only just getting now with the continued introduction of other DI engines into the marketplace. The N54 was introduced in late 06, that makes it 6.5 years old by my count. HPF finished their M3 up in very late 06, and made 667whp on race gas and meth. Customers weren't getting them till '07, and they cracked 1,000 4 years ago. I don't think either car will be knocked off the time throne by the N54...what's your point? That the amount of money and effort the aftermarket throws at a car determines how badass the engine is? Useless metric.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Thanks for repeating me. No kidding, exactly what I have been saying regarding POWER POTENTIAL.
    Didn't repeat at all actually. You know what we call that? Agreement!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Not really because direct injection has a limited injection window due to where it has to inject which becomes limited as RPM increases. Seriously now? This is basic stuff man, read up and come back to me.
    And that is fixed by increasing the capacity/pressure of the high pressure system. A development which is supposedly happening right now. Take your own advice and read what I said.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You can't "fix" it you only "mask" the problem.
    Right, and if those solutions are implemented and produce an n54 that is able to hold 1,000whp reliably, that definitely doesn't fix it's biggest problem. It's biggest problem is that it's not an S65! Where has my head been!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    My motor will be making more power than any N54 with less time on the market. If it was direct injected it wouldn't be capable of 8400+ rpm with the power it will make as I would have to be making "at this time" fuel system excuses. Plus my car has a DCT which was the majority of the hold up. If it was manual, it would already be on the road. But... that doesn't affect the motor.
    Cool story bro.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Do something with your N54 worth mentioning. I'd rather walk than be stuck modifying it for equal power to an S65. Regardless, I mean, it's basically done. Would you like to race or do you need a different motor? Actually, ya, you need a different motor.
    Sure, I do something worth mentioning with mine. I drive it.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And the N54 has been on the market for 8 years now buddy, it's not fresh.
    8 years? Did I miss something? 2007 335i having the first N54? 2013 today?????? uhm I'm no math major but that seems like 6 years to me. I'd be the 2JZ didn't make 1000hp in it's first 6 years. just saying.....
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    What's a 2JZ?
    Click here to enlarge

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    fail. thats 2jz and nos everyone knows that nos is illegal
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    haha 2jz no $#@!.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    8 years? Did I miss something? 2007 335i having the first N54? 2013 today?????? uhm I'm no math major but that seems like 6 years to me. I'd be the 2JZ didn't make 1000hp in it's first 6 years. just saying.....
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=13+minus+7

    You are correct. But i had to check




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    LOL, I'm surprised it took almost a whole day before someone whipped that out Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    No thanks. I have no desire to turn a daily driven street car into a full on race car that can only be run a few times between teardowns. For me, street cars are street cars, and race cars are race cars. And if I were picking a platform to do the TX mile with, I'd pick a different platform.
    More like you can't do it and those who choose to don't choose the N54. That's the reality.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Uhhh...because you threw the S54 and the euro S50s into the same group as the M/S5x, when they do not belong there?
    Hahahahahahh they don't belong there? So now Euro S50's aren't part of the same engine family either? Stop talking.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    This is the problem with trying to spin everything for argument's sake...you get confused, talk in circles, have severe issues comprehending and absorbing information, and tend to forget when you dish out conflicting information. It's why I like sticking to the facts, something you have trouble doing when you're trying to argue. And yes, the M54 is the weakest due to the aluminum block and long crank. M52 cranks are stronger than m50s, and the M50/52 blocks are basically identical.
    The stupidity is beyond belief you don't even know what you are talking about: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109562

    Sorry, not all M52's are equal. Get off my forum with this poor knowledge level and stop talking. You're embarrassing yourself.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    So you're saying that the S54 and the M/S5xes don't suffer from the same issues?
    No what I said was a closed deck aluminum block with more material due to larger cylinder spacing is stronger than an inline-6 with tight spacing resulting in less cylinder material and an open deck aluminum block. What part of that was so hard to understand?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    And did you totally skip the part where I cited the deck plate liners used in built Hondas?
    Ya I totally did as you can do whatever you want with an open deck honda block and it will never equal the strength of the iron LSX. Fact.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    This from the same person who was going on tirades about the 2JZ? Dude, you crack me up.
    The discussion earlier was regarding the 2JZ being the Euro N54 and now you chime in with other blocks made out of aluminum with closed decks and more material as if they are more applicable somehow? Or somehow related to the N54 being a German 2JZ due to being an inline-6 that is turbocharged? Nobody said aluminum blocks can't make power what was said was an open deck N54 made out of aluminum is a weakness and you agreed. FOCUS.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    The Supra definitely had a very large effect on big HP
    Thank you for the stunning revelation.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Supraforums. Makes you an arbiter of EVERYTHING!
    I'm sorry I was there when the whole scene got going. And it going A LOT harder than the N54 ever did or will... fact.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Lol seriously though, it was 7 1/2 years before Vinny Ten cracked 1,000
    So it got there faster than the N54 even when tuning was not as sophisticated as today? Yay, another point for me.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Didn't repeat at all actually. You know what we call that? Agreement!
    We call that restating my point.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    And that is fixed by increasing the capacity/pressure of the high pressure system.
    It isn't fixed, where is this fix? The more power you make at the higher the rpm the less time you have to inject the same amount of fuel necessary to support said power. This is an inherent weakness of direct injection. Ya, the N54 is doing great with its fuel system everything is resolved and fixed. Umm... wait, no it isn't.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Right, and if those solutions are implemented and produce an n54 that is able to hold 1,000whp reliably, that definitely doesn't fix it's biggest problem. It's biggest problem is that it's not an S65! Where has my head been!
    No the biggest problem is it is a turbo economy motor not a performance motor to begin with. It's an open deck aluminum block with poor heads for gods sake and this is all masked with boost. It's not BMW's best effort, not even close. They went cheap and got away with it, good for them.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Cool story bro.
    Was it a cool story "at this time" ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Sure, I do something worth mentioning with mine. I drive it.
    Unfortunately, for you it's transportation. So you have a basic BMW you aren't doing anything special with. While I drive my other cars while my toy gets built. Different levels.

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