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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    How do large turbos change that? Just swap in an uprated fuel pump. I am assuming the basics here. You have a tune, fuel pump, fmic, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable when you're dropping thousands on a turbo kit. My point is that for the extra power this kit provides you need more than 91. Sure you can get more power over stock, but it won't be much more than RBs if you're using 91 only. I can't believe people don't get this. Its extremely basic. If you're octane limited on RBs what makes you think incrementally larger turbos will change that?
    these twins are a LOT more efficient than rb's.. same boost and fuel i'll be shocked if there aren't moderate gains

    personally .. flex fuel all the way for me when possible Click here to enlarge.. tons of stations here

  2. #77
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Takes a special filter. Pics will be posted later on this week
    ahhh interesting, look forward to it Click here to enlarge

  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Its going to depend on temperature, turbo, and boltons. What are the inputs here? Timing and boost are opposing limits and you cannot max out both with 91 on stock turbos. You have to choose one or another. Timing is preferable since it doesn't drive your turbos into the ground. Surely you must admit at a certain point no matter how much larger the turbo, you cannot add more boost without more octane. Right? Considering we can see that limit appearing already on stock turbos, and clearly on RBs, you should realize this CR isn't going to support much more. Lets wait for results. Don't be surprised though when they tell you what I just said.
    who are you arguing with? where did i say anything about maxing it out on 91? surely you cant think that a better turbo, well, 2 of them wont be more powerful than smaller turbos right.. so what is the max boost and timing figures? can we push 25 psi with lower timing and get 550+hp on 91? we dont know, its not unheard of.. or can we keep higher timing and 20psi with the more efficent turbos, 2 of them.. and hit 550ish hp? That would be quiet the setup for 91carpgas now wouldnt it? would that be a good indication of what the n54 can do? i think so..

    would that scenario lend us the ability to see 580 on 93 octane? probably.. and THEN lets see what we can eek out on +meth or +ethanol mixes.., surely 600+.
    i dont care what 1 person runs because they are 20 minutes from Exx, the rest of the world is not. if you think catering to the 3 people that have access to readily available e85, out of the 20 people ready to hop on a true TT upgrade is more important, than more power to you, but dont expect to not get $#@!ed at by the masses for pulling a shiv..

  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    2. Most people don't run out of e85 or meth. Reference that its available in every state at a pump and available at affordable prices via mail order.
    what most people? i know of 1 e85 station, and its across a bridge.. or another 2 hours north, and I live around the largest cities on the eastern seaboard.. maybe you havent heard, but E85 is great, but nowhere near readily available.. oh i forgot, now we have to order fuel and store it at home because we own an n54.. thats logical.. because everyone has storage space for 55gal drums of fuel..

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    these twins are a LOT more efficient than rb's.. same boost and fuel i'll be shocked if there aren't moderate gains
    stop using logic.. it doesnt belong here because the fanboy's and beta testers get mad

  5. #80
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    I am trying so hard to stay out... must resist temptation...Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  6. #81
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    I love how one picture sparked all this fuel and tuning controversy. Im enjoying reading it all. Haha

  7. #82
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    Can't wait Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    I am trying so hard to stay out... must resist temptation...Click here to enlarge
    no, please, we would love to hear it.. what else do you have to do..

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I am assuming the basics here.
    And that's the problem.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    My point is that for the extra power this kit provides you need more than 91. Sure you can get more power over stock, but it won't be much more than RBs if you're using 91 only. I can't believe people don't get this. Its extremely basic. If you're octane limited on RBs what makes you think incrementally larger turbos will change that?
    You think when people are saying let's tune on 91 & that there aren't any gains over the RB turbos. The truth is that there will be substantial gains made, but they will be no where near the max potential of the Stage 3s. When you refer to RB power, that is people maxing out a stock size, upgraded wheel & WG turbo. The strict 91 tuning will probably be a very low boost/low timing mapping for straight 91, but I wouldn't be surprised that if it's high 4xx WHP / low 500 WHP.

    You keep going on about E85 -- It's unrealistic for two reasons. 1) E85, outside of CA, is NOT very common. And no one is going to carry a gas can with extra E85 in their trunk because that's the only fuel the car will work on. 2) There's no proven, community ready aftermarket fueling system available at this time. Unfortunately at this time, it seems that there are only going to achieve the max potential of the turbos -- Lots of Meth or Race Gas (MS109).

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    I am trying so hard to stay out... must resist temptation...Click here to enlarge
    More the merrier, especially now that the football game is over.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I love how one picture sparked all this fuel and tuning controversy. Im enjoying reading it all. Haha
    This might get more activity then the S65 thread from a few weeks ago
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Can't wait Click here to enlarge
    When's your flight?? Should hopefully have some more logs for you tomorrow BTW
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    When's your flight?? Should hopefully have some more logs for you tomorrow BTW
    Not sure yet if its Jake or me or maybe even both of us going..sounds good on the logs
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    How do large turbos change that? Just swap in an uprated fuel pump. I am assuming the basics here. You have a tune, fuel pump, fmic, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable when you're dropping thousands on a turbo kit. My point is that for the extra power this kit provides you need more than 91. Sure you can get more power over stock, but it won't be much more than RBs if you're using 91 only. I can't believe people don't get this. Its extremely basic. If you're octane limited on RBs what makes you think incrementally larger turbos will change that?
    I'm with you here 100%
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    no, please, we would love to hear it.. what else do you have to do..
    You know my opinion on the single and how it all played out, how it was marketed, how results were shown, how dynos were displayed... I just hope we don't see it again. Everyone here knows very well what I would say... the pump gas comments are spot on. Shiv was dogged for the same thing.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Not sure yet if its Jake or me or maybe even both of us going..sounds good on the logs
    Sounds like a turbo tuning vacation

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    You know my opinion on the single and how it all played out, how it was marketed, how results were shown, how dynos were displayed... I just hope we don't see it again. Everyone here knows very well what I would say... the pump gas comments are spot on. Shiv was dogged for the same thing.
    Thank. You. Click here to enlarge
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    You know my opinion on the single and how it all played out, how it was marketed, how results were shown, how dynos were displayed... I just hope we don't see it again. Everyone here knows very well what I would say... the pump gas comments are spot on. Shiv was dogged for the same thing.
    lol, these guys are making fictitious arguments like we said meth and e85 are the devil and not to do the testing or something.. we said start with the basics, do it right the first time. theres no question 91 octane is available and will show the minimum potential the setup has. progress from there.. some people have 93 as a base fuel, lets get that market locked in.. now lets move to just racefuel so we round out the only readily available and most common high octane fuel...from there lets go to meth, as a large portion of N54 owners already have it and love it, and can now stack it on top of the other actual readily available and common fuel.. and finally, the latest and greatest, Exx, not common, not readily available, and definitly stressing the fuel system so few run it at all, and less run it everyday..


    sounds like a solid, logical and thorough approach to me.. but hey.. what do i know.. i dont own an n54, again, yet..

  15. #90
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, these guys are making fictitious arguments like we said meth and e85 are the devil and not to do the testing or something.. we said start with the basics, do it right the first time. theres no question 91 octane is available and will show the minimum potential the setup has. progress from there.. some people have 93 as a base fuel, lets get that market locked in.. now lets move to just racefuel so we round out the only readily available and most common high octane fuel...from there lets go to meth, as a large portion of N54 owners already have it and love it, and can now stack it on top of the other actual readily available and common fuel.. and finally, the latest and greatest, Exx, not common, not readily available, and definitly stressing the fuel system so few run it at all, and less run it everyday..


    sounds like a solid, logical and thorough approach to me.. but hey.. what do i know.. i dont own an n54, again, yet..
    far too much logic in this statement lol...
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  16. #91
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    far too much logic in this statement lol...
    LOL, the tuners that get to touch these first are well aware of what they need to do, its just some a few people that dont get it..

    im actually semi excited to see what these do.. gonna call my brother tomorrow and tell him i need to borrow his car for a week or so and drop these in on my own dime..

  17. #92
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    You know my opinion on the single and how it all played out, how it was marketed, how results were shown, how dynos were displayed... I just hope we don't see it again. Everyone here knows very well what I would say... the pump gas comments are spot on. Shiv was dogged for the same thing.
    Agreed. I personally would love to see a baseline of pump gas 91 or 93 first before seeing results of other fuels such as E85, C16 and meth.

  18. #93
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    What a joke. Who the hell drops 6k and then tunes on 91. Its just plain stupid. I cant wait to spend thousands and then see the MINIMUM my setup can do. I am sorry if you cant figure out how to order the proper fuel for your car. That's a you problem and really shouldn't reflect the performance of a purpose built big turbo kit. Lol. On 91 we are talking 470-550whp. Does it really make a difference at that point when you could do 700+ on E85 or meth. Man, I got the highest producing 91 octane tune, sweet bro! Its like who is the smartest retard here.

  19. #94
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    You know my opinion on the single and how it all played out, how it was marketed, how results were shown, how dynos were displayed... I just hope we don't see it again. Everyone here knows very well what I would say... the pump gas comments are spot on. Shiv was dogged for the same thing.
    If the differences between the way I share information with the forum, and how other vendors in the past did are not clear then I don't know what to tell ya. I have respect for the single kit. The hardware was solid, seems like maybe they were just too early. We will have an easier time tuning but I think the fueling issues are gonna rear their head as well. Lets hope this HPFP upgrade is as real as I was told.

  20. #95
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    gonna call my brother tomorrow and tell him i need to borrow his car for a week or so and drop these in on my own dime..
    Wish I'd get awesome surprises like a Stage 3 turbo upgrade from my brother Click here to enlarge
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  21. #96
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    The pictures look great. Can't wait to see some results!

    As someone in AZ with somewhat limited access to E85, step 1 for me would to to evaluate what the numbers are, with nothing other than the ACN 91 water-gas that we have coupled with our outrageous summer temps. If I purchase this upgrade, yes, I'll likely (eventually) also upgrade fueling and/or add meth, but I absolutely want to know what the car will do with no fueling upgrades and no E85, racegas, or meth. FWIW I also want to know the glory numbers, but 90% of my driving is on ACN 91 right now.

  22. #97
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    The pictures look great. Can't wait to see some results!

    As someone in AZ with somewhat limited access to E85, step 1 for me would to to evaluate what the numbers are, with nothing other than the ACN 91 water-gas that we have coupled with our outrageous summer temps. If I purchase this upgrade, yes, I'll likely (eventually) also upgrade fueling and/or add meth, but I absolutely want to know what the car will do with no fueling upgrades and no E85, racegas, or meth. FWIW I also want to know the glory numbers, but 90% of my driving is on ACN 91 right now.
    no way man! E85 FTW!
    anything less is a waste of your money, i said so because i say so..

  23. #98
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    What a joke. Who the hell drops 6k and then tunes on 91. Its just plain stupid. I cant wait to spend thousands and then see the MINIMUM my setup can do. I am sorry if you cant figure out how to order the proper fuel for your car. That's a you problem and really shouldn't reflect the performance of a purpose built big turbo kit. Lol. On 91 we are talking 470-550whp. Does it really make a difference at that point when you could do 700+ on E85 or meth. Man, I got the highest producing 91 octane tune, sweet bro! Its like who is the smartest retard here.
    On my old Evo, I used to have several maps at my disposal to run strictly 93 or E85. Whenever I didn't have to travel far, I would run E85 daily and enjoy the extra power it provided over 93 octane. However, I would switch to my 93 map whenever I would have to go far and/or know the area didn't have E85 available. Having more options is never a bad thing. Click here to enlarge

  24. #99
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    I run 100% e85 daily. Do i think that it should only be tuned for that just because thats what i will run no. I agree with @LostMarine Tuners should start with base pump gas add meth, then do race gas then add meth, then e85.

    i dont want to be driving on my e85 only tuned car making 700whp and then travel and have to run the risk of running 93 or 91 id much rather be safe and make less power in those situations than look over other fuels and end up messing up my car because of it
    Turbo lag is the on ramp to the highway which is power.

  25. #100
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    All this tuning speculation seems kind of silly to me. Dzenno has always struck me as a true enthusiast and I have no doubt that he and his team will be checking out all of the tuning options, starting with straight 91 as that is what will be readily available in CA and will be easiest to work with to get the initial bugs worked out (go down the street and re-fill the tank when needed). Once the 91 octane tune is buttoned up, and depending on where the continued tuning takes place, I would bet that meth injection tuning, E85 blend tuning, and combinations thereof will follow shortly.

    Either way, it will be interesting to see the developments.

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