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  1. #51
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    If you live in CA and you buy this kit and don't run meth then you must've bumped your head. It's not even about fueling limitations or band aids. The fact is ACN's knock suppression is roughly equivalent to piss.

    Wanna know how much power you can make on a super nice setup but your are only willing to fill your tank with crap? The answer is not nearly enough.
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  2. #52
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    i dont think people understand.

    No successful company skips regular fueling and jumps to secondary and band-aid ish approaches. I am quiet positive that PTF and BMS will do it all, but if one were to ONLY show +meth or E85 only tuning, i, and many of you will flip $#@! about them not conducting thorough and realistic testing.

    show us another turbo upgrade on any platform that doesnt disclose pump gas only #'s, and ill show you a sham of a company.

    We are all aware of the limitations from higher compression motor and boost, but not posting it, will reult in what we do to shiv, and laugh him out of here for hiding it..

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Dude, if you can spend 6K on a turbo kit, you can spend $150 for a 55gal drum of E85 or however much methanol you need. Sure meth and E85 is a "niche" market but so are $6k turbo kits.
    So you're telling me that if you spend $6k on this turbo kit you're going to only (even majority of the time) run the car on E85 or Meth?! No, because majority of people who are heavily modding their N54 powered 135/335 drive these cars on a regular basis and run them on pump gas. REALLY don't know anybody who has a "weekend only" 135/335 that strictly runs on 100+ Octane/Race Spec E85. I think it'd be safe to say that ~75% of the people even considering this upgrade rip on their cars & drive them every day that they can. And let's be real, anybody that is running E85 on this platform is getting it out of a pump, not in the mail Click here to enlarge

    Personally if I was even contemplating this kit & saw that it's basically going to require Meth (because there def isn't enough fueling support to run 100% E85) everytime I wanna go into Kill Mode, I'd be contemplating a switch in platforms to something like 996 P-car & just running it on straight E85. Perfect example: M3ntal or Prodigy both have 996s that are both at ~800 WHP with very basic fueling & turbo upgrades, NO meth.
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  4. #54
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    So you're telling me that if you spend $6k on this turbo kit you're going to only (even majority of the time) run the car on E85 or Meth?! No, because majority of people who are heavily modding their N54 powered 135/335 drive these cars on a regular basis and run them on pump gas. REALLY don't know anybody who has a "weekend only" 135/335 that only gets to see 100+ Octane/Race Spec E85. I think it'd be safe to say that ~75% of the people even considering this upgrade rip on their cars & drive them every day that they can.

    Personally if I was even contemplating this kit & saw that it's basically going to require Meth (because there def isn't enough fueling support to run 100% E85) everytime I wanna go into Kill Mode, I'd be contemplating a switch in platforms to something like 996 P-car & just running it on straight E85. Perfect example: M3ntal or Prodigy both have 996s that are both at ~800 WHP with very basic fueling & turbo upgrades, NO meth.
    you cant use logic here, i forgot that when you jump into a vtt thread, its like a shiv thread on e90, and fanboys will argue anything you say if its not praising

    realistically, you will want and need 2+ tunes, a la JB4. you want a base safe map (yes, you will need this, meth and e85 are not available at all times), then you want a street map, ie +meth/E85 mix, and then a kill map for maximum potential. Its really not a lot to ask. but for someone to say skip it, is foolish, childish, and ignorant

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The various maps are up to the end user. Sales Pitch Dynos (which these really are) should focus on the most commonly used setups (which LM highlighted): 91 for the CA users, 93 for everywhere else in civilized world & MS109 for the Race Gas users. If you want to add in Meth/E85 that's fine, but not everybody A) chooses to run meth or B) doesn't have access to E85. I personally would get scared off form the Stage 3s if it was marketed like the Vishnu/FFTEC kit that basically requires copious amounts of meth to perform as advertised.
    I am not a huge meth fan, but until the fuel system issues are figured out its going be needed to make big power on this platform. If you choose not to run meth with the fuel system limitations at this time, expect to leave some power on the table. That's just part of the deal right now for the N54

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I am not a huge meth fan, but until the fuel system issues are figured out its going be needed to make big power on this platform. If you choose not to run meth with the fuel system limitations at this time, expect to leave some power on the table. That's just part of the deal right now for the N54
    And that's fine, especially because this product hits the open market finding a fueling solution is going to become the next priority in the aftermarket community. But that doesn't mean let's completely skip testing strictly pump gas & only advertise Meth/E85 dynos.
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  7. #57
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    This has ZERO to do with being a fanboy so just leave that go-to comment of yours out of it. It has to do with the fact that purchasing a kit like this and only wanting to run on 91 ACN makes no sense. Should they do it to just to show numbers? Sure. Do I give a single $#@! about those particular numbers? Nope.

    Just FYI, i do run VP M1 methanol 100% of the time. The benefits of meth injection out weigh the cost hundred fold.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    This has ZERO to do with being a fanboy so just leave that go-to comment of yours out of it. It has to do with the fact that purchasing a kit like this and only wanting to run on 91 ACN makes no sense. Should they do it to just to show numbers? Sure. Do I give a single $#@! about those particular numbers? Nope.

    Just FYI, i do run VP M1 methanol 100% of the time. The benefits of meth injection out weigh the cost hundred fold.
    if the shoe fits man..

    like i said, its on the tuners, not VTT to extract the power. hell Im gonna call my brother and tell him to buy this if it pans out..

    noone is arguing meth # are not wanted or expected, or even a bad idea, not sure why we have to discuss that.. but now there will bea legit hardware solution to find out exactly what the current n54 and fueling is capable of, as the hardware is not proprietary to one fukstik, and should be much much easier to tune.

    lets just theorize for a minute, that stock fuel system is capable of pushing 650 hp, and these turbos are so efficent that cooling with meth shows no gain.. are you still going to run meth? maybe.. but for what, for octane right? so because some people are hardcore meth users, but MOST are not, you have just opened up th floodgates for real progress and stable customer base.. case in point, how many GTRs are running meth?

  9. #59
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    Lets try not to argue about anything too much before its even running. We will be testing for all the fueling options available to the N54 right now. It's the only thing that makes sense.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Lets try not to argue about anything too much before its even running.
    That just wouldnt fit the BB MOClick here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    LOOKS GOOD!

  12. #62
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    Like anything all number should and will be tested, mainly because Shiv isn't doing it, and thats all he does is try to make it look good.

    But I think everybody wants to see big dyno numbers and low ETs first.




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    0 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    So you're telling me that if you spend $6k on this turbo kit you're going to only (even majority of the time) run the car on E85 or Meth?!
    YES. You're $#@!ing retarded if you think you will hit these numbers without using the correct fuels. Expect to make RB power levels, maybe a bit more, with 91 only. Its simple physics. You're at the octane limit. Its not a limit of the fueling system, but a limit of the fuel itself. Slapping a huge turbo on isn't going to change that. I have already explained this. One last time, if you can afford the 6k turbo kit, you can afford the drum of E85 or the meth. Its really not that much money and there is usually a source within 15 miles for those too unfortunate to have PUMP E85. If you're so stubborn, or stupid enough, not to get the right fuel, sure it will work, have fun spending thousands dropping the CR to do it. An RB car on E85 will likely take you running 91 and no meth with this setup. There simply is not enough octane. Tony is going to test 91 anyway, so you will have the results, we can talk about it again then. Click here to enlarge

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    YES. You're $#@!ing retarded if you think you will hit these numbers without using the correct fuels. Expect to make RB power levels, maybe a bit more, with 91 only. Its simple physics. You're at the octane limit. Its not a limit of the fueling system, but a limit of the fuel itself. Slapping a huge turbo on isn't going to change that. I have already explained this. One last time, if you can afford the 6k turbo kit, you can afford the drum of E85 or the meth. Its really not that much money and there is usually a source within 15 miles for those too unfortunate to have PUMP E85. If you're so stubborn, or stupid enough, not to get the right fuel, sure it will work, have fun spending thousands dropping the CR to do it. An RB car on E85 will likely take you running 91 and no meth with this setup. There simply is not enough octane. Tony is going to test 91 anyway, so you will have the results, we can talk about it again then. Click here to enlarge
    curious, what are our timing and boost limits on 91 and 93 octane?

  15. #65
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    E85 is pump gas. I definitely want to see e85 numbers. Tony's twin pumps will support it; waiting on your upgraded HPFP results!

    Good luck.
    Last edited by The Ghost; 02-03-2013 at 09:45 PM.
    Change is constant

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    curious, what are our timing and boost limits on 91 and 93 octane?
    Its going to depend on temperature, turbo, and boltons. What are the inputs here? Timing and boost are opposing limits and you cannot max out both with 91 on stock turbos. You have to choose one or another. Timing is preferable since it doesn't drive your turbos into the ground. Surely you must admit at a certain point no matter how much larger the turbo, you cannot add more boost without more octane. Right? Considering we can see that limit appearing already on stock turbos, and clearly on RBs, you should realize this CR isn't going to support much more. Lets wait for results. Don't be surprised though when they tell you what I just said.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Its going to depend on temperature, turbo, and boltons. What are the inputs here? Timing and boost are opposing limits and you cannot max out both with 91 on stock turbos. You have to choose one or another. Timing is preferable since it doesn't drive your turbos into the ground. Surely you must admit at a certain point no matter how much larger the turbo, you cannot add more boost without more octane. Right? Considering we can see that limit appearing already on stock turbos, and clearly on RBs, you should realize this CR isn't going to support much more. Lets wait for results. Don't be surprised though when they tell you what I just said.
    I agree with this, the octane / power limit seems to have been reached on pump meaning to see much bigger gains we need better fuels. My FIRST choice is E85, this requires a robust fuel system which we may not be able to get right now, so the next best thing is pump mixed with E85 and meth, and combos of these with race gas. We will see nice gains with this set up. I am not worried about that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    YES. You're $#@!ing retarded if you think you will hit these numbers without using the correct fuels.
    Just can't fix stupid Click here to enlarge You might want to reread everything I posted because I never said you'd be running the car in Kill Mode on 91, cause you can't. What you're suggesting (that should always run the car on E85 or meth) creates the most inconvenient high HP car because inevitably one day you'll run out of either E85 or Meth, and you'll be left 100% dependent on finding a source to refill or the car will have to be towed -- that's why I asked about strictly pump gas testing. Only exposing additional flaws in your logic, even Tony's acknowledged that with the Stage 3s that the OEM fueling system won't be able to keep up, which is why meth will used to find out what these turbos are capable of.

    And nobody's hit the limit on the Stock Compression -- Not Dzenno's car on RB Twins or Vishnu/FFTEC's ST. Yes the Vargas Stage 3s are a completely different product, but until the engine experiences uncontrollable knock on 91/93 (with or without meth), then you're pulling arguments (what you might call facts) out of your ass.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Just can't fix stupid Click here to enlarge You might want to reread everything I posted because I never said you'd be running the car in Kill Mode on 91, cause you can't. What you're suggesting (that should always run the car on E85 or meth) creates the most inconvenient high HP car because inevitably one day you'll run out of either E85 or Meth, and you'll be left 100% dependent on finding a source to refill or the car will have to be towed -- that's why I asked about strictly pump gas testing. Only exposing additional flaws in your logic, even Tony's acknowledged that with the Stage 3s that the OEM fueling system won't be able to keep up, which is why meth will used to find out what these turbos are capable of.

    And nobody's hit the limit on the Stock Compression -- Not Dzenno's car on RB Twins or Vishnu/FFTEC's ST. Yes the Vargas Stage 3s are a completely different product, but until the engine experiences uncontrollable knock on 91/93 (with or without meth), then you're pulling arguments (what you might call facts) out of your ass.
    1. We certainly have reached the octane limit on stock turbos and RBs running 91. Just ask Dzenno if he is seeing octane limitation using that fuel.

    2. Most people don't run out of e85 or meth. Reference that its available in every state at a pump and available at affordable prices via mail order.

    3. IF you rab out of E85 or meth its not like you wouldn't be able to turn the boost and timing down and still run. You would. At this point though, why the $#@! would you care about the power?

    4. Supposing you do care about the power after you exhausted the aforementioned. It won't be drastically different than 91 on RBs. Again, based on the octane limit.

    I have explained this like a million times now. Any tuner will confirm it. I am leaving this conversation now. Its just stupid.

    Why not compare numbers at stock boost too so you know who is gonna win when you get a CEL. LOL

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Were running filters on the turbos for the prototype. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, usually flows better than charge piping and if iat temps are effected it will be very slight and not noticeable.
    i thought as much .. no clearance issues with rear turbo?

  21. #71
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    I reached the stock fuel system limit at 440hp on e50. Just saying. Fuel pressure was down in the 40s. Terry has reached the fuel system limits on RBs too. Not sure what you meant but this is certainly a problem.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i thought as much .. no clearance issues with rear turbo?
    Sure lots of clearance issues we had to work around. But in the end with some work and careful fitment we got it all to fit some room to spare.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I reached the stock fuel system limit at 440hp on e50. Just saying. Fuel pressure was down in the 40s. Terry has reached the fuel system limits on RBs too. Not sure what you meant but this is certainly a problem.
    How do large turbos change that? Just swap in an uprated fuel pump. I am assuming the basics here. You have a tune, fuel pump, fmic, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable when you're dropping thousands on a turbo kit. My point is that for the extra power this kit provides you need more than 91. Sure you can get more power over stock, but it won't be much more than RBs if you're using 91 only. I can't believe people don't get this. Its extremely basic. If you're octane limited on RBs what makes you think incrementally larger turbos will change that?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Sure lots of clearance issues we had to work around. But in the end with some work and careful fitment we got it all to fit some room to spare.
    i meant the air filter straight off it if that wasn't clear*

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i meant the air filter straight off it if that wasn't clear*
    Takes a special filter. Pics will be posted later on this week

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