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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Sure. I can take a video, but I don't know what its worth at this point. The car is making all sorts of clutch rattles beyond the neutral sound and I think it will continue to until at least a couple hundred miles. Have to let it break in before I am really pass judgment negatively. Until then benefit of the doubt. Click here to enlarge
    I have had a few clutches done in different cars with a SMFW, I never really noticed the sound change after break in. The can of marbles banging around sound was there from the beginning and never really changed that I noticed.

    I know this was the installer's 1st BMW clutch, sure no installer error?

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    i would say if you have no plans of upgraded turbos stick with oem DMFW if you're concerned about chatter. If you're going to go upgraded turbos you're just going to have to live with it as there is no twin disk that people will vouch for yet.
    The undercover guys used a twin disc that they swear by, forgot exactly what it was. Since we are South bend dealers I am just having them make me a custom full face disc clutch that should hold what we need it to on the stage 3 test car. South bend made it PERFECTLY clear they do not recommend a SMFW unless its a race car. Dzenno assured me we will have no issues with misfire detection turned off, I guess we will see cause I think we are going this route. I hope to have it in the car by end of the month. Going through a lot of changes at the shop, building a bigger one etc, trying to find time for everything is not an easy task.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The undercover guys used a twin disc that they swear by, forgot exactly what it was. Since we are South bend dealers I am just having them make me a custom full face disc clutch that should hold what we need it to on the stage 3 test car. South bend made it PERFECTLY clear they do not recommend a SMFW unless its a race car. Dzenno assured me we will have no issues with misfire detection turned off, I guess we will see cause I think we are going this route. I hope to have it in the car by end of the month. Going through a lot of changes at the shop, building a bigger one etc, trying to find time for everything is not an easy task.
    Tony since you're a south bend dealer why don't you have them build you a twin disk just to try out? If it works well you will have helped the community out immensely. If it didn't you're not out a lot of money compared to a consumer that paid full price along with install fees. Click here to enlarge

    regarding the aluminum SMFW, I had one with the spec stage 3+ and I absolutely hated the noise. jpsimon has one and says he's used to it but there's nothing worse than pulling up to a drive thru window and the attendant asking what's wrong with your $55k BMW FTL!
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  4. #54
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    That's why you stay away from drive thrus Click here to enlarge i also got used to the chatter when i ran the CM fx400 and their 16lb flywheel only to realize right after how much it was really annoying me and how much i appreciated the oem dual mass flywheel when i put it back on with the ACT at first and then the HPF feramic
    Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Right now they do not offer the TD set ups for the racing stuff only the big diesel stuff. I asked them about it. They may be willing to make me something in the future. This full face clutch should help eliminate chatter and be easy to drive. I never ever like driving a puck disc on the street. Speaking of drive thru windows. My dodge is so loud I have to turn it off of they cant hear me. Had a lady get out of her car last week and tell me to turn it off cause she couldn't order. But hey when you want to run almost 40 PSI I don't mind a little noise.Click here to enlarge

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Right now they do not offer the TD set ups for the racing stuff only the big diesel stuff. I asked them about it. They may be willing to make me something in the future. This full face clutch should help eliminate chatter and be easy to drive. I never ever like driving a puck disc on the street. Speaking of drive thru windows. My dodge is so loud I have to turn it off of they cant hear me. Had a lady get out of her car last week and tell me to turn it off cause she couldn't order. But hey when you want to run almost 40 PSI I don't mind a little noise.Click here to enlarge
    Lol. My Evo lopes so bad everyone thinks its going to stall haha
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mj6234 Click here to enlarge
    I have had a few clutches done in different cars with a SMFW, I never really noticed the sound change after break in. The can of marbles banging around sound was there from the beginning and never really changed that I noticed.

    I know this was the installer's 1st BMW clutch, sure no installer error?
    I don't think installer error. It has quieted down again. The car is still quite difficult to drive and will be for some time I think. I am compiling a video of the sound now. I am not going to pass too much judgement on the clutch before the disengagement smooths out, but so far so good. I can tell this clutch is going to hold up to quite a bit.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The undercover guys used a twin disc that they swear by, forgot exactly what it was. Since we are South bend dealers I am just having them make me a custom full face disc clutch that should hold what we need it to on the stage 3 test car. South bend made it PERFECTLY clear they do not recommend a SMFW unless its a race car. Dzenno assured me we will have no issues with misfire detection turned off, I guess we will see cause I think we are going this route. I hope to have it in the car by end of the month. Going through a lot of changes at the shop, building a bigger one etc, trying to find time for everything is not an easy task.
    Interested in seeing what they come up with. This one is good for 670ftlbs which should be more than enough, but more options the better. I am local to you and would love to check out your shop sometime. Maybe once I get this meth setup we can go for a spin.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Interested in seeing what they come up with. This one is good for 670ftlbs which should be more than enough, but more options the better. I am local to you and would love to check out your shop sometime. Maybe once I get this meth setup we can go for a spin.
    sounds great man. We're in the process of a major build. Got over an acre of room and 80% of it going to my sisters non-profit, and were building another shop just for the performance side. Things are a bit hectic, as we're a little displaced, but would love to meet ya.

  10. #60
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    Updated sound after 60 miles. I think this is way too soon to judge personally, but I got a request so figured I'd record it. The idle sounds a bit higher pitched, but that could be because the car was fully warm in this video versus only around 160F and just restarted in the first. I expect the sound to die down and the drivability to improve. So far so good.

    Its really not bad at all as it is now. TBH since I never use A/C and pretty much always hold the clutch in, I probably would have been better off with the aluminum SMF. I did hate wastegate rattle though when I had it.

    Last edited by rudypoochris; 01-07-2013 at 11:07 PM.

  11. #61
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Started it up this morning. No rattle. The clutch engagement is starting to smooth out nicely too. Much easier to drive. I am starting to like this clutch. This is 41F 600rpm or so idle 2 minutes after start.


  12. #62
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    Great! One thing to keep in mind is that the 3+ clutch disk is made out of Carbon Semi-Metallic material and is more prone to noisy chatter than the one on the 2+ disk. The Stage2+ disk uses a hybrid of Kevlar and Carbon-Graphite materials which should dull out the noise a bit more.

    Both of these disks also "should" be quieter with the steel flywheel than the aluminum and I'd also vager less prone to welding given high rate of slippage. The steel flywheel should handle high heat better than aluminum, so better for the drag strip as well.
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #63
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    The clutch has really smoothed out. I am at 100 miles or so now. No rattle at all. I can't wait to tear into this on E85. Very happy with the purchase.

    Couple things: I do now wish I went with an aluminum wheel for better response though. Don't get me wrong, the steel unit does rev a little quicker, but it isn't night and day. With my driving style it probably would rarely rattle.

    I also understand why BMW uses a DMFW stock. With the SMF you get a low rpm drone and NVH at 1500rpm and greater than 50% throttle in gears 4-6. The stock flywheel dampens this so you don't hear or feel it. This is a negative to me since I often drive 1200-1700rpm in 5th and 6th. I know a lot of enthusiasts don't do this though, but thought id mention for those who do. Basically the DMFW allows BMW to get a larger dynamic range out of the engine (and better economy).

  14. #64
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    Cool. However, your rattle would've been worse with an aluminum flywheel and the steel one will dissipate heat better in high slip situations if you plan on dragging that beast of yours. I think you wouldn't have liked the aluminum one as much tbh
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Cool. However, your rattle would've been worse with an aluminum flywheel and the steel one will dissipate heat better in high slip situations if you plan on dragging that beast of yours. I think you wouldn't have liked the aluminum one as much tbh
    How would this Steel SMFW work with our HPF Stage 2 Clutches?

    Could I simply replace the stock FW with this, even though I have a couple thousand miles on my HPF Stage 2 already?
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    How would this Steel SMFW work with our HPF Stage 2 Clutches?

    Could I simply replace the stock FW with this, even though I have a couple thousand miles on my HPF Stage 2 already?
    It'd work the same. In fact the stg3+ clutch disk is quite similar to the feramic from HPF, the spec stg5 actually looks on paper to be very similar in material to the hpf feramic. I can't say I see any issues just swapping the flywheel for the steel one. If anything I'd recommend it given low to no chatter. I'm looking to hear a bit more from @rudypoochris post break-in to see how it plays out.

    Much appreciated @rudypoochris !
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 01-09-2013 at 10:08 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    How would this Steel SMFW work with our HPF Stage 2 Clutches?

    Could I simply replace the stock FW with this, even though I have a couple thousand miles on my HPF Stage 2 already?
    I think you would want to make sure to order the SAC P/N if you do this. Not sure what the benefit is with HPF though using that flywheel. The issue is with the clutch disk having catastrophic melt down and welding itself to the wheel.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Cool. However, your rattle would've been worse with an aluminum flywheel and the steel one will dissipate heat better in high slip situations if you plan on dragging that beast of yours. I think you wouldn't have liked the aluminum one as much tbh
    Yeah, I understand. Who knows. If I had to bet, I think the rattle could be alleviated with some kind of shimming/preloading of the input shaft. If not, I don't use A/C anyway and I hold my clutch in at stop lights out of habit. I just want that laser rev match. Haha.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I understand. Who knows. If I had to bet, I think the rattle could be alleviated with some kind of shimming/preloading of the input shaft. If not, I don't use A/C anyway and I hold my clutch in at stop lights out of habit. I just want that laser rev match. Haha.
    Just raise idle to get around chatter to about 900rpm. No biggie.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 01-09-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Just raise idle to get around chatter to about 900rpm. No biggie.
    Yeah, I know. Wish I went aluminum. This clutch is solid though and that is really just my own fault for not being honest about what I wanted. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Actually, the steel flywheel is an upgrade in that sense over the aluminum OEM DMFW so given a feramic clutch on the car a steel flywheel can only help.
    I didn't know stock was aluminum. Interesting.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I know. Wish I went aluminum. This clutch is solid though and that is really just my own fault for not being honest about what I wanted.
    But then it'd chatter more...are you saying you'd be ok with more chatter now?
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I know. Wish I went aluminum. This clutch is solid though and that is really just my own fault for not being honest about what I wanted. Click here to enlarge



    I didn't know stock was aluminum. Interesting.
    I believe that was a typo on the part of dzenno, as the OEM DMFW is not aluminum, it's cast iron.

    With regards the use of the HPF "Feramic" face clutch, I would stick with the OEM flywheel as the "Feramic" friction plate surface, is less likely to weld to cast iron, than that of the high-carbon steel Spec flywheel or in particular that of chromoly steel.

    The "Feramic" material picks up very easily on chromoly steel, been there done that!

  23. #73
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    Justin, thanks for that correction. You're absolutely right. OEM DMFW is indeed cast iron, my bad.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #74
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    I am really starting to love this clutch. I just mastered the highway shifting, which doesn't sound like much, but you need literally between 0.5-1.0" of pedal depression to shift. Compared to the 3-4" stock this is significantly less. My shifts are super fast now. The steel flywheel is seemingly more responsive as I figure out how to use this setup better.

    My only concern is if the pedal engagement is so high now, how is it going to hold in 20,000 miles later? Doesn't the pedal engagement keep rising?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    But then it'd chatter more...are you saying you'd be ok with more chatter now?
    Yeah. This one is whisper quiet. After hearing the sound at the beginning of break in, I know what it sounds like and I don't think it would be that bad with A/C off tbh.

  25. #75
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    @dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks if you haven't tried this clutch out already, you should. The shifts are more like a thought than an actual action. Its fricken sweet.

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