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  1. #51
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    IDK where Flinchy is from, but I know in the NJ/PA area, not only am I running E85 blends, but we have a few 135/335s running the JB4/COBB tune with E85 blends, in addition to some E85 only 911 Turbos + EVOs (I can nearly guarantee that 100% of these cars are buying their E85 from the same gas station in Philly). The brilliance of running E85 is not only being able to run a more powerful tune, but also that E85 is significantly less expensive then a comparable Race Gas (MS109/C16).

    If you're buying Race Spec E85, then you might as well buy + tune for C16 and spare yourself the headaches/required costs of supporting mods to run straight E85; specifically the fueling system - higher flow injectors, fuel pumps, etc. (because running straight E85+ requires an additional 130% fuel compared to petroleum based fuels). There's a reason why the majority of E85 users are weekend warriors/high HP sleds (tuner cars) and NOT professional race teams.
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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    so, pay for a protuned map to maximize your performance, is now only a "race day" map even though said fuel is available at pumps? so really, you dont want nor need an E85 tune, you need a ms109 or c16 tune, because, its only for racing? so now your e85 street map is to much, you go to a e70 tune, but e85 is not availabale at every station, or many stations rather, so you also need your 93/e10 map handy.. your not maximizing anything then.. im not following your logic..
    With a flex fuel tune, you have 2 base maps, one 'high' on e85 at max power, one e00 with minimum power, then the flex fuel sensor detects eXX and adjusts your power

    if you're tuned to flex fuel from the pump you are NOT tuned to e85, you should be tuned to e70.. As mentioned before, if you tune for 85%, then fill up with 70%, you run the risk of damaging your engine

    if you have an e85 tune, it wont be safe on flex fuel.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i dunno, im not following the logic here. are you tuned for E85 or E70? would you be faster if it was guaranteed E85, would you be faster on E70 tuned for E70 or E70 but tuned for E85? what do you do when E85 isnt available? have a drum with you or have to switch maps? what about if your local station is guarnateed E85, but you get a few miles away from there and now your E85 tune is only actually E70 or less, do you know it, does your car know it, what happens then?
    e85 has more octane rating than e70, more timing, boost, therefore power

    If you tune for e85 but run e70, you'll be running too rich, have too much timing, it's like having a 93 octane tune but running 91 (not as bad probably though)

    if you tune for e70 but run e85, you'll be running a bit lean, but wont be newr knock thresholds at leat

    if you have a flex sensor, nothing happens, you lose some power but it's safe.. No sensor, not so safe

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    IDK where Flinchy is from, but I know in the NJ/PA area, not only am I running E85 blends, but we have a few 135/335s running the JB4/COBB tune with E85 blends, in addition to some E85 only 911 Turbos + EVOs (I can nearly guarantee that 100% of these cars are buying their E85 from the same gas station in Philly). The brilliance of running E85 is not only being able to run a more powerful tune, but also that E85 is significantly less expensive then a comparable Race Gas (MS109/C16).

    If you're buying Race Spec E85, then you might as well buy + tune for C16 and spare yourself the headaches/required costs of supporting mods to run straight E85; specifically the fueling system - higher flow injectors, fuel pumps, etc. (because running straight E85+ requires an additional 130% fuel compared to petroleum based fuels). There's a reason why the majority of E85 users are weekend warriors/high HP sleds (tuner cars) and NOT professional race teams.
    Australia actually

    e85 is indeed an amazing fuel for performance, so much more potential on it, and fuel use/cost isn't too bad as it's so much cheaper

    running straight e85 is not much worse than e50, except for fuel pumps on our car, silly system when n54 injectors as MASSIVE.. You should be able to get at least as much power from alcohol fuel (oxygen content and all) than leaded race fuel, and as a plus, emissions are almost entirely water!

    it's only 30% more, not 130%.. But then a little more as you can run more boost which needs even MORE fuel

    v8supercars over here use alcohol fuel to cut down on emissions, so yeah an entire race series uses it

    many time attack cars will run ethanol fuel as well

    i believe most circuit race series won't run fuels like c16 since they're leaded.. Vp fuels are run often in really short course stuff, drag racing and possibly motorcross?

    from memory, wtac bans leaded fuel use, i'm not sure if many of them run ethanol, but considering the cars and power levels, it's possible quite a few

    another downside to c16 is it's REALLY not cheap lol.. 5gal for $80...
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-05-2013 at 02:33 AM.

  5. #55
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    running straight e85 is not much worse than e50, except for fuel pumps on our car, silly system when n54 injectors as MASSIVE.
    Like I said, this is an unavoidable problem that comes with making the switch from petroleum based fuels to ethanol based

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    it's only 30% more, not 130%.. But then a little more as you can run more boost which needs even MORE fuel
    130% = 30% more than standard pump gas (1.3 times the amount necessary).


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    v8supercars over here use alcohol fuel to cut down on emissions, so yeah an entire race series uses it
    AND now we're going in circles... Majority (99.9%) of the cars that we're talking about on this forum (personal projects/tuner cars, stuff that spends majority of it's time on the street) aren't supercars or entered in race series. Like I said previously, the real allure to running E85 is the significant HP gains it offers (through more aggressive timing, cooler burn & ability to fight off timing corrections + detonation). AND since majority of these cars are staying on the street, majority of us aren't gonna waste our time buying Race Spec (canned & shipped) E85 gas. Instead, we'll take it out of a pump & tune according (fully aware that the ethanol concentration can be anywhere between 70-85%).
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Like I said, this is an unavoidable problem that comes with making the switch from petroleum based fuels to ethanol based



    130% = 30% more than standard pump gas (1.3 times the amount necessary).




    AND now we're going in circles... Majority (99.9%) of the cars that we're talking about on this forum (personal projects/tuner cars, stuff that spends majority of it's time on the street) aren't supercars or entered in race series. Like I said previously, the real allure to running E85 is the significant HP gains it offers (through more aggressive timing, cooler burn & ability to fight off timing corrections + detonation). AND since majority of these cars are staying on the street, majority of us aren't gonna waste our time buying Race Spec (canned & shipped) E85 gas. Instead, we'll take it out of a pump & tune according (fully aware that the ethanol concentration can be anywhere between 70-85%).
    some cars are now designed for flex fuel from factory, they don't have as great an issue

    sorry, you said '130% *more*' not just 130%. Confusion then.


    Going in circles?

    I agree with everything you just said, but you also said pro racing doesn't use etha ol fuel which isn't true as i mentioned

    having a flex fuel sensor means tuning for race grade e85 is a good idea, as if you manage to get a clean 85 from the pump, you get full power, but you stay safe below as well

    tuning 10/10ths on flex fuel, could turn out bad if you tune for e85 then fill up with e70... So you're missing out on a fair bit of potential power as you have to back off a fair bit

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