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  1. #176
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio
    Hey, so, this is my first post (or, one of my first posts, if I don't remember...). I do not know that much about fuel pumps, whatsoever. When changing fuel pumps (Say, swapping a stock unit for a Walbro pump), to the signals to the pump have to change, respectively? If, say, voltage was demanding the stock pump to do what it could not do, would the same signals translate to the desired flow in the upgraded pump?

    I have the Flex Fuel kit installed, and I really do like it! It's nice not having to get the ratios just right (though, I'm sure that the right ratios perform extremely well on other systems, too.). I'm wondering whether this system would work with a swapped pump. I'm certainly willing to do some further testing of my own, especially given how crazily easy it is to access the fuel pump.
    The fuel pump is run using the OEM controller, which adjusts duty cycle as needed to help maintain the low fuel pressure target while minimizing wear on the pump. I have not had any issues with it running the higher current Walbro alone. I'm not sure if it will run the Walbro plus the OEM pump but it's possible it will. I presume that is how Shiv is powering his dual pump setup.

    PS. I think flash only (e.g. Cobb) is the only tuning solution that requires you to pay attention to the E85 levels.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 01-09-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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  2. #177
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    Hey, so, this is my first post (or, one of my first posts, if I don't remember...). I do not know that much about fuel pumps, whatsoever. When changing fuel pumps (Say, swapping a stock unit for a Walbro pump), to the signals to the pump have to change, respectively? If, say, voltage was demanding the stock pump to do what it could not do, would the same signals translate to the desired flow in the upgraded pump?

    I have the Flex Fuel kit installed, and I really do like it! It's nice not having to get the ratios just right (though, I'm sure that the right ratios perform extremely well on other systems, too.). I'm wondering whether this system would work with a swapped pump. I'm certainly willing to do some further testing of my own, especially given how crazily easy it is to access the fuel pump.
    Any chance you could upload the install instructions for the fuel pump kit? I would be interested in seeing how it is configured.

  3. #178
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Any chance you could upload the install instructions for the fuel pump kit? I would be interested in seeing how it is configured.
    Unfortunately, I don't have any instructions for the fuel pump kit, itself. I'm still on the fence about what I should get. I will probably not be using a big single, but I am definitely considering upgraded twins (Rob Beck). I just have instructions for the Flex Fuel kit. The fuel pump that I have was just a simple part replacement, because my aging fuel pump could not keep up with the E85 demands. It was likely due to the filter being too dirty. Though, the old fuel pump was much slower-sounding when it was priming upon unlocking the car. What is making me consider some sort of fuel pump upgrade, however, is that the new fuel pump cannot keep up with the E85 demands at higher RPMs.

  4. #179
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    what is this?

  5. #180
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The fuel pump is run using the OEM controller, which adjusts duty cycle as needed to help maintain the low fuel pressure target while minimizing wear on the pump. I have not had any issues with it running the higher current Walbro alone. I'm not sure if it will run the Walbro plus the OEM pump but it's possible it will. I presume that is how Shiv is powering his dual pump setup.

    PS. I think flash only (e.g. Cobb) is the only tuning solution that requires you to pay attention to the E85 levels.
    Thanks for the information. If that is the case, then I might end up just upgrading the LPFP. It is likely that I will never be hitting the kind of power levels which would choke it. Plus, it's an xDrive, so, I probably have other problems to worry about, before getting to levels that would cavitate the fuel. And, yeah, I almost went with Cobb, until I found that there were some other options out there!

  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately, I don't have any instructions for the fuel pump kit, itself. I'm still on the fence about what I should get. I will probably not be using a big single, but I am definitely considering upgraded twins (Rob Beck). I just have instructions for the Flex Fuel kit. The fuel pump that I have was just a simple part replacement, because my aging fuel pump could not keep up with the E85 demands. It was likely due to the filter being too dirty. Though, the old fuel pump was much slower-sounding when it was priming upon unlocking the car. What is making me consider some sort of fuel pump upgrade, however, is that the new fuel pump cannot keep up with the E85 demands at higher RPMs.
    Well... just buy the $180 E85 LPFP and do the DIY (or have a shop do it). Terry was able to hold full low pressure and saw high pressure dropping with heavy E85, RBs, and no meth. Basically he maxed the capacity of the lines in the LP system out. This by itself pretty much means its time to look at the HPFP. The question still open is which is better FFTEC or the DIY.

    Keep in mind:

    1. STs have lower BSFC than the RBs. That is to say RBs use more fuel for the same HP
    2. The STs are all running a $#@! ton of meth for fueling/octane

  7. #182
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    Thumbs down

    post redacted ...
    Last edited by Anthony@FFTEC; 01-11-2013 at 01:34 AM. Reason: Just going to incite an argument probably

  8. #183
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trbolexis Click here to enlarge
    post redacted ...
    nothing wrong with inciting an argument.. lets hear it

  9. #184
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    nothing wrong with inciting an argument.. lets hear it
    I think I saw his post before he deleted it. It said something to the effect of why is Shiv able to make XYZ hp with their inline Walbro? And the answer is of course meth injection. Also Shiv isn't even using this inline pump solution on his car. He has some three pump monstrosity.
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    Is Shiv or FFTEC exploring HPFP solutions as wel?
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  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think I saw his post before he deleted it. It said something to the effect of why is Shiv able to make XYZ hp with their inline Walbro? And the answer is of course meth injection. Also Shiv isn't even using this inline pump solution on his car. He has some three pump monstrosity.
    Only to keep this talk going and to get some clarity he referenced 660 WHP. Isn't that the girls car who was running the inline FF pump, not Shivs? I am curious as I am about to start on the pump pump situation next week

  12. #187
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    To be honest I don't know what is what over there. I've never seen any fuel pressure logs from the high or low pressure system on anything except one stock turbo E85 car running the FFTEC pump and it was dropping high pressure. The log didn't have low pressure. I suspect they don't even let their customers log low pressure otherwise someone would have posted a log by now.

    Once meth is in the picture it greatly extends the fueling capacity. And if you are using a more efficient single turbo that only makes peak power for a few hundred RPM that also allows more peak whp for a given fueling capacity.
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  13. #188
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    The meth is the key to how they are hitting 650whp on their ghetto pump.

  14. #189
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    Would one walbro and one meth pump be enough for 650whp?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    The meth is the key to how they are hitting 650whp on their ghetto pump.
    Yes but when people said that Shiv denied it and said they could do it on E85 without meth...

    Doesn't look like he can do it on race gas without either.
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    They would not be able to hit 650whp without their fuel pump.

  17. #192
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Would one walbro and one meth pump be enough for 650whp?
    The HPFP seems to do better at higher RPM so it might be fine at 7000rpm. One meth pump can move a lot of meth...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Only to keep this talk going and to get some clarity he referenced 660 WHP. Isn't that the girls car who was running the inline FF pump, not Shivs? I am curious as I am about to start on the pump pump situation next week
    I'm sure one Walbro is not going to be enough for your needs for the GTX's.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The HPFP seems to do better at higher RPM so it might be fine at 7000rpm. One meth pump can move a lot of meth...
    I agree, since the HPFP capacity is rev dependent. Also the efficiency of bigger turbo requires less fuel per whp, but I still believe FFTEC pumps in series could reach higher volume than Walbro without the stock pump's help. I hope Tony can throw in the Walbros one at the time for the stg3 for us to see what happens...

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    Sure they might. Or maybe one big single paxton pump is the way to go. We'll see how the flow numbers look. Waiting for bits to some in still.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Sure they might. Or maybe one big single paxton pump is the way to go. We'll see how the flow numbers look. Waiting for bits to some in still.
    Yes, one huge pump would be the easiest solution. I don't know if there could be a suitable one that can stand ethanol?

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    The 660whp was 100% E85 and meth. At 1300cc/min (4 m1 nozzles at 150psi), someone can work the appx %... my guess is 20% max which results in more injector flow then the required straight gasoline at this HP.

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    Boody boody boody boody boody everywhere!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    The 660whp was 100% E85 and meth. At 1300cc/min (4 m1 nozzles at 150psi), someone can work the appx %... my guess is 20% max which results in more injector flow then the required straight gasoline at this HP.
    I would guess they are injecting 1500ml/min+ of methanol which weights around 1.75# per 1000ml. So if I am doing the math right we're talking around 157lb/hr of fuel. At .8 BSFC that will power around 200hp.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I would guess they are injecting 1500ml/min+ of methanol which weights around 1.75# per 1000ml. So if I am doing the math right we're talking around 157lb/hr of fuel. At .8 BSFC that will power around 200hp.
    Thats a LOT of meth. Terry lets try to figure this out so we can just run E85.

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