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  1. #26
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    ....I got the t4 6466 with options I wanted for $1589 shipped. most places it Runs 1718-1900 shipped.....

    we are lookin at $2500-3000 for the manifold, head flange and downpipe......
    Dude, i forgot to tell you this when you went and purchased a single....I hate you ! lol

    REVENGE !

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Dude, i forgot to tell you this when you went and purchased a single....I hate you ! lol

    REVENGE !
    tony seems to be making great progress with the S3's surely you will jump on them and the community will be better for it because every one knows we are both drag strip junkies and will be doing plenty of runs, vids, dynos etc Click here to enlarge
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I wish everyone would want a twincharger setup :p.. A decent sized roots and a decent sized single, best of all the worlds!.. A few pound from the blower at idle, a ton of pound up high

    if only i were a millionaire.. Or a workshop owner.. Haha

    vargas II/rb should be enough for just about all n54 owners though yeah...
    I don't like this idea from a complexity/pita standpoint, plus I dont think it will outperform a sequential twin setup, but if you do it, you can find Thunderbird Super Coupe Eaton charger from the pick n pull or eBay for around $50. These were setup to boost a 3.8L stock, so they should work for a 3.0 in performance application.

  4. #29
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    rudy,
    I'm with you on this, a sequential twin setup would most definitely be the best of both worlds! Maybe in a year or two someone will make it happen!

  5. #30
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    A sequential twin setup on this motor would be ridiculous for response on this motor. Packaging it is rough though and there's not all that much space to go around

  6. #31
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    Supercharger and turbocharger combos have been tried for years. They are never successful and just do not work well. If they did you would see them everywhere. Waste of time. And who may I ask is charging 4 grand for a single manifold fir the N54? That is ridiculous! I very well might offer the twin manifolds for sale once we get them exactly how they want them, either in cast or weld el form. But that wont be til well after stage 3 is on the market.

  7. #32
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    For the most part, singles generally make much more top end power and if you are into highway rolls or drag racing, then they are the proper choice on this platform. It is most common with straight six motors due to the fact that it's easy to either put a single or twin on it. Singles don't do well on V shaped motors due to plumbing and difficulties in exhaust manifold design and length. The twins generally offer slightly less lag, more down low tq and a more usable power curve but will not make as much power currently on this platform as the single. That is not always the case though; the GTR uses twins and the upgrades use twins as well and they can make 1600 awhp but that is a V6 motor where the setup of a single would be a nightmare.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  8. #33
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    There's probably some small advantage to one or the other depending on your goal (oem vs aftermarket strip/race kit) but with all the other variables an engine will see, together they will obscure it to the point that its not something to be proven outside of well staffed lab at an oem.

    I'd bet a borg warner EFR 6758 would be pretty insane for spool on an N54 while a bit more money than RBs @ same hp so it loses to the old enemy, cost and ease of packaging. On N55 though...

    We have so few turbo upgrade choices as it is for the N54 because people just dont want to invest the dev $ because of risks of different sorts that something more complex like sequentials is even much less likely to get built. If the platform explodes and a lot more vendors start offering kits then maybe.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I don't like this idea from a complexity/pita standpoint, plus I dont think it will outperform a sequential twin setup, but if you do it, you can find Thunderbird Super Coupe Eaton charger from the pick n pull or eBay for around $50. These were setup to boost a 3.8L stock, so they should work for a 3.0 in performance application.
    i've only seen a few cars done with the proper setup needed for it to work, check out 'evomadmac' 800whp++ evo 5, feeding the compressed air from the turbo into the blower for some sort of stupidly high psi lol.

    not wrong in it being complex though... VW offers it in their 1.4 golf motors, something like 3x psi of boost...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Supercharger and turbocharger combos have been tried for years. They are never successful and just do not work well. If they did you would see them everywhere. Waste of time. And who may I ask is charging 4 grand for a single manifold fir the N54? That is ridiculous! I very well might offer the twin manifolds for sale once we get them exactly how they want them, either in cast or weld el form. But that wont be til well after stage 3 is on the market.
    golf 1.4 TSI's come factory twincharged.. nissan march (micra) came factory twincharged in the early 90's or late 80's.. there's a fair handful of people who've done it to their own cars, just look on youtube, there's a pretty nuts 4agze twincharged 86 corolla

    from memory there's at least one guy that's done it to a 13b.. not to mention the best i've seen, evomadmac, last i heard it was 800awhp with a dead straight power curve before something went wrong with the dyno, and he was releasing it as a kit once he perfected it (it's been a few years..) on his race car.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i've only seen a few cars done with the proper setup needed for it to work, check out 'evomadmac' 800whp++ evo 5, feeding the compressed air from the turbo into the blower for some sort of stupidly high psi lol.

    not wrong in it being complex though... VW offers it in their 1.4 golf motors, something like 3x psi of boost...



    golf 1.4 TSI's come factory twincharged.. nissan march (micra) came factory twincharged in the early 90's or late 80's.. there's a fair handful of people who've done it to their own cars, just look on youtube, there's a pretty nuts 4agze twincharged 86 corolla

    from memory there's at least one guy that's done it to a 13b.. not to mention the best i've seen, evomadmac, last i heard it was 800awhp with a dead straight power curve before something went wrong with the dyno, and he was releasing it as a kit once he perfected it (it's been a few years..) on his race car.
    It's pretty common on the old supercharged MR2s as well.

  11. #36
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    Just because it has been done doesn't make it a good idea. I think the 1.4 vw in particular hasn't received high praise. with sequential twin turbos you get the same response without the parasitic drag and the rebelting of the engine. All you need is a log manifold that ties all 6 cylinders and a butterfly on one of the turbos. I am sure if you got that far that Terry could figure out some rough control.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Just because it has been done doesn't make it a good idea. I think the 1.4 vw in particular hasn't received high praise. with sequential twin turbos you get the same response without the parasitic drag and the rebelting of the engine. All you need is a log manifold that ties all 6 cylinders and a butterfly on one of the turbos. I am sure if you got that far that Terry could figure out some rough control.
    hasn't recieved high praise?

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=1...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    quite the opposite

    yes, it would be complicated, ridiculously expensive, and it's not as smart as a simple single turbo or a bigger twin setup.. but it's really cool to think about lol.

    sequential twin turbos are even MORE complicated though... 13b and 2jz are two of the biggest i can think of.. oh and the EJ20.. the limitation as far as i know is in the size of the smaller turbo, it's restricting the amount of air that can possibly be pushed through.. you get brilliant response, and a decent top end, but it's not entirely spectacular..

    and we're back to the 'what do you want' .. big power, or response?

    ED: i'm not sure how the EJ works.. but from memory.. the 13b is a small and a large that work together at high RPM, but the 2jz one shuts off to let the higher RPM one take over? no?

    ah no.. 2jz:

    "At this stage the whole system is symmetrical:
    Cylinders 1,2,3 push their exhaust gases straight into turbine#1 (the exhaust ports are aligned accordingly).
    Cylinders 4,5,6 push their exhaust gases straight into turbine#2 (their exhaust ports are also aligned accordingly as shown below)."

    low revs it's a small single, then high revs it's a standard parallel.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 12-16-2012 at 01:23 AM.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    It's pretty common on the old supercharged MR2s as well.
    yeah, the AW11 with 4AGZE, brilliant power output potential for a 1.6 :|

  14. #39
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    I agree the 2jz setup was complicated, but I don't think it needs to be that complex to function smoothly. I would go with two turbos of the same size personally. Only time will tell, its a tight fit.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I agree the 2jz setup was complicated, but I don't think it needs to be that complex to function smoothly. I would go with two turbos of the same size personally. Only time will tell, its a tight fit.
    what would that achieve?

    2 turbos of the same size.. well what.. fancy piping so it's like a small single down low with a strange gate setup so it becomes a standard twin 3/3 at a certain RPM?|

    that would also be kinda cool lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    what would that achieve?

    2 turbos of the same size.. well what.. fancy piping so it's like a small single down low with a strange gate setup so it becomes a standard twin 3/3 at a certain RPM?|

    that would also be kinda cool lol
    I guess I meant operate in sequential then parallel. You'd have full flow through only one turbo then start cracking the second at 3000 with both parallel by 4000 or so.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I guess I meant operate in sequential then parallel. You'd have full flow through only one turbo then start cracking the second at 3000 with both parallel by 4000 or so.
    hmm... it sounds like a lot of effort for near imperceivable gain... you'd have.. a couple hundred RPM sooner spool maybe? then largely similar midrange and identical top end

    even RB sized turbos are full boost 3kish aren't they?

    though for vargas Stage III turbos, it would make things interesting.. boost probably MUCH sooner

    but with how tight the tolerances are currently, probably a bit of a fantasy :/

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    hmm... it sounds like a lot of effort for near imperceivable gain... you'd have.. a couple hundred RPM sooner spool maybe? then largely similar midrange and identical top end

    even RB sized turbos are full boost 3kish aren't they?

    though for vargas Stage III turbos, it would make things interesting.. boost probably MUCH sooner

    but with how tight the tolerances are currently, probably a bit of a fantasy :/
    It would be a huge gain in spool time. You could size the turbos to 350-400hp each which would mean by 3000rpm or earlier you would be at full spool since you are driving all exhaust through one turbo and then you could still hit 700-800hp top end. Basically you have a 3L with the same amount of lag that turbos sized to 350-400hp would give (like stock) with an 800hp peak. Dynos for 800hp 3L usually look like $#@!. The STs aren't hitting full spool till 3750+ now and they are running reduced boost in the midrange which means to get a torque hump they wouldn't hit full spool till 4250+. And they don't even make 800hp.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    hmm... it sounds like a lot of effort for near imperceivable gain... you'd have.. a couple hundred RPM sooner spool maybe? then largely similar midrange and identical top end
    Not true. Check out the comparisons between Supras running stock turbos in parallel mode versus the sequential mode. The stock TT Supra has a very wide powerband because of the sequential system.

    The complexity came from attempting to smooth out the powerband so that when the 2nd turbo came online, it wasn't some abrupt power increase.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Not true. Check out the comparisons between Supras running stock turbos in parallel mode versus the sequential mode. The stock TT Supra has a very wide powerband because of the sequential system.

    The complexity came from attempting to smooth out the powerband so that when the 2nd turbo came online, it wasn't some abrupt power increase.
    Precisely. Look at the supra flow diagram and it is throwing exhaust gas all over the place at different rpms. I don't think it is necessary to be so complicated.

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    Just use a twinscroll
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Just use a twinscroll
    +1

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Just use a twinscroll
    It won't spool as low. It would be close though with a quick spool butterfly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    It won't spool as low. It would be close though with a quick spool butterfly.
    In my opinion this thread has gone off the deep end. The complexity and trouble you would have to go through to build a sequential turbo system in the N54 far outweighs the benefits. You want super quick spool. Stick with hybrids and 500-550 max HP if you want to make over 600Hp then go bigger. Everyone wants their cake and to eat it too. This is my opinion, flame away

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    In my opinion this thread has gone off the deep end. The complexity and trouble you would have to go through to build a sequential turbo system in the N54 far outweighs the benefits. You want super quick spool. Stick with hybrids and 500-550 max HP if you want to make over 600Hp then go bigger. Everyone wants their cake and to eat it too. This is my opinion, flame away
    Couldn't agree more
    Click here to enlarge

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