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  1. #826
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GetSomeE92 Click here to enlarge
    Define what it means to be "right on the cusp." 11.1/11.2?

    Also, are these manual transmissions or automatic transmissions? With the ability to pre-load the drivetrain on the autos I could see it being easier to accomplish, but it is my understanding that the autos are still having some issues with the power and can't really hold it. With the manual transmissions, I would say that someone is going to really have to know how to drive if they are on an otherwise stock suspension (even with sticky tires). I haven't driven this car in a manual configuration, but it seems that people seem to have a hard time getting the launch right on this car. With the amount of power the single turbos are capable of, launching hard will likely result in nothing but wheel spin if launched with the RPM at a sufficient level where there is power for a strong launch. Launching too softly will result in a severe bog as the single turbo doesn't make much power below 3,750 rpm from the graphs I have seen.
    yes, right on the cusp, with 1.7 60's ET is all about traction and 60'. I think most bmw guys rely on the excuse of AT is faster, when in reality, its no different, especially with NLS. is it "easier" maybe, but in every other platform manual is the prefered and really only acceptable transmission. So everytime i hear someone blame bad ET on MT, well, its really the driver.

    You can argue preload, but again, when any other car can do it, it comes down to driver. This is COMPLETELY disregarding the added 200 hp.
    im curious what suspension anyone has specific for drag racing on their cars. as i know, noone does, would it help, sure, is it required? no, i was on eibach springs.

    To claim "too much power" to launch correctly is just absurd. prepped track, sticky tires, low tire psi...hell take a look at any street racing video. guys with MT, DR's and more power lay it down on the street, so its just excuses.
    again, bmw guys think there is some magical mystery in launching their cars..
    600+hp and cant crack 10's and 130+ to me, would be laughable.

    AAAAND.. this is actually lowering my expectations down from 135+mph traps _I_ would expect with 650rwhp in a 3700lb car..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, right on the cusp, with 1.7 60's ET is all about traction and 60'. I think most bmw guys rely on the excuse of AT is faster, when in reality, its no different, especially with NLS. is it "easier" maybe, but in every other platform manual is the prefered and really only acceptable transmission. So everytime i hear someone blame bad ET on MT, well, its really the driver.

    You can argue preload, but again, when any other car can do it, it comes down to driver. This is COMPLETELY disregarding the added 200 hp.
    im curious what suspension anyone has specific for drag racing on their cars. as i know, noone does, would it help, sure, is it required? no, i was on eibach springs.

    To claim "too much power" to launch correctly is just absurd. prepped track, sticky tires, low tire psi...hell take a look at any street racing video. guys with MT, DR's and more power lay it down on the street, so its just excuses.
    again, bmw guys think there is some magical mystery in launching their cars..
    600+hp and cant crack 10's and 130+ to me, would be laughable.

    AAAAND.. this is actually lowering my expectations down from 135+mph traps _I_ would expect with 650rwhp in a 3700lb car..
    I'm going to have to disagree. Have you tried launching an MT 335 with a lot of power? It is very difficult. Especially without LSD. And this car loves to wheel hop. I've seen with my own eyes an AT pull a 1.7 60' on RFTs. I've seen a man who said it was his first time at the strip pull a 1.8 60' the very first try in an AT. I've seen dozens of MTs, and I've never seen anyone pull better than a 1.9, other than me (which is very few and far in between). Also, don't discount the final drive. MTs are crossing the finish line barely into 4th gear, ATs are well into 4th gear.

    Also, I'm pretty sure I am not putting down 650whp at the boost I'm running. I'd say more around 600whp. We will know soon enough as I plan on dynoing the car as well.

  3. #828
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    Im a AT FBO and i run 2.0 60's.. Life sucks man.




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    Recipe for 6mt launches:

    1) eliminate wheel hop (rear suspension mods and defiv's hop nuke kit)
    2) SOLID burn out (line lock, and no one dare tell me you dont need one LOL trust me, you DO need one for a nice controlled burnout)
    3) 2-step
    4) DRs or slicks, period, don't even bother running street tires..without the right rubber you wont get great results and you're just killing your drivetrain and wasting your time
    5) launch where the 2-step and your tires allow you to leave without bogging..set 2-step rpm low and work your way up in 2-300rpm increments until the car just squats and takes off without bogging
    6) DR tire pressure down to ~18psi
    7) if using DRs stick with the Hoosier DOT..otherwise run a slick with skinnies in front..
    8) if you have adjustable coils set the rear to full hard damper and front to full soft to allow for proper weight transfer at launch..leaving the rear soft will promote instability with independent rear suspension.
    9) front tires inflated to 50psi (max safe pressure)

    In the end, practice and trust me without ALL these you'll be getting mediocre results in a 6mt as its NOT easy

    Once you get that 60' sorted use NLS!
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-26-2012 at 10:50 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  5. #830
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Im a AT FBO and i run 2.0 60's.. Life sucks man.
    I get 2.1s but on RFTs lol.

  6. #831
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Recipe for 6mt launches:

    1) eliminate wheel hop (rear suspension mods and defiv's hop nuke kit)
    2) SOLID burn out (line lock, and no one dare tell me you dont need one LOL trust me, you DO need one for a nice controlled burnout)
    3) 2-step
    4) DRs or slicks, period, don't even bother running street tires..without the right rubber you wont get great results and you're just killing your drivetrain and wasting your time
    5) launch where the 2-step and your tires allow you to leave without bogging..set 2-step rpm low and work your way up in 2-300rpm increments until the car just squats and takes off without bogging
    6) DR tire pressure down to ~18psi
    7) if using DRs stick with the Hoosier DOT..otherwise run a slick with skinnies in front..
    8) if you have adjustable coils set the rear to full hard damper and front to full soft to allow for proper weight transfer at launch..leaving the rear soft will promote instability with independent rear suspension.
    9) front tires inflated to 50psi (max safe pressure)

    In the end, practice and trust me without ALL these you'll be getting mediocre results in a 6mt as its NOT easy

    Once you get that 60' sorted use NLS!
    Quoted for future reference. This is just adding to all the items I need to purchase ._.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  7. #832
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, right on the cusp, with 1.7 60's ET is all about traction and 60'. I think most bmw guys rely on the excuse of AT is faster, when in reality, its no different, especially with NLS. is it "easier" maybe, but in every other platform manual is the prefered and really only acceptable transmission. So everytime i hear someone blame bad ET on MT, well, its really the driver.You can argue preload, but again, when any other car can do it, it comes down to driver. This is COMPLETELY disregarding the added 200 hp.im curious what suspension anyone has specific for drag racing on their cars. as i know, noone does, would it help, sure, is it required? no, i was on eibach springs.To claim "too much power" to launch correctly is just absurd. prepped track, sticky tires, low tire psi...hell take a look at any street racing video. guys with MT, DR's and more power lay it down on the street, so its just excuses. again, bmw guys think there is some magical mystery in launching their cars.. 600+hp and cant crack 10's and 130+ to me, would be laughable. AAAAND.. this is actually lowering my expectations down from 135+mph traps _I_ would expect with 650rwhp in a 3700lb car..
    On any other platform, a manual transmission is typically the way to go for a street car. This is especially so in Mustangs (older models at least) Camaros and the like. However, their auto transmissions were slush boxes. The auto in the BMW shifts pretty quickly for stock and is easy to be consistent with. When cars get faster and more dedicated to a 1/4 mile track, you'll typically see some sort of automatic transmission go into the car to help keep it consistent, and that is going to be paired with a higher stall torque converted to allow the engine to get into the power band before wanting to move forward on you at the line. That option doesn't exist for the 335 as of yet. And I'm not saying "too much power to launch correctly." I'm saying that in the 335i, with a manual transmission, no stock LSD, relatively narrow tires for a 600+ whp street car, stock (or lowered) suspension and a prepped track there is a high chance of wheel hop and the resulting destruction. I just don't think it will be as easy to accomplish in the BMW as it is in an American muscle car. Impossible? No. But it is going to take right driver with the car set up properly. As you said, ET is all about traction and that first 60'. However, I agree that the trap speed should still be a good indication of what the car is capable of and what kind of power it is putting down, even if it is unable to put it down in the beginning of the run to allow for the expected ET.I'm enjoying the discussion. Wish I could talk racing all day.

  8. #833
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    Easy solution: TH400 + Ford 9" + 4 link= WIN Click here to enlarge

    J/K
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  9. #834
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    like i said, BMW guys and excuses..

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    lol I pulled a few 1.85 in my 135 manual with no LSD..went 12.0@118 and 12.1@117 that day...

    than went back in a better DA but track prep was $#@! and i was 120mph but only 12.2 and couldn’t do better than a 2.0 60...

    I don’t think a lot of guys have been on a properly prepped track like we can get regularly at atco at our rentals (shoes stick like glue). That’s really all you need coupled with the right tire/driver. I agree that manuals are not inferior.. my red 135 6m whooped every AT tranny e92 car's ass I raced from a roll or dig around my area. Now my buddy Donny’s 6m 135i puts hurtings on every other e92 he runs too AT or MT because he can drive.. I really need to run him in my AT now that its tuned to the balls to see if I take him from a roll despite being the heavier car (and "superior AT) ... but i doubt it. He’s just g5 iso with a competent driver. If he ever went to the track I’m sure he would pull 1.8 60 or better.. He’s been racing his entire life and knows what to do... I do pretty much agree that there is a misconceptionand a lot of inexperienced 6m guys out there...

    Dzennos list was spot on but you really don't need all the things listed, but certainly could use them all.
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    @ChuckD05 yes you can pull off 1.8 even 1.6 60' with just sticky tires and good track prep but that's exactly what i was saying that i'm tired of hearing tbh..there's ZERO consistency there and you're always worrying about the launch and 8/10 times you wont launch right and 9/10 you'll wheel hop...also 1.8 60' is bogus..we need 1.5-1.6 60' and consistency there to even start talking abouut serious drag racing imho
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, right on the cusp, with 1.7 60's ET is all about traction and 60'. I think most bmw guys rely on the excuse of AT is faster, when in reality, its no different, especially with NLS. is it "easier" maybe, but in every other platform manual is the prefered and really only acceptable transmission. So everytime i hear someone blame bad ET on MT, well, its really the driver.

    You can argue preload, but again, when any other car can do it, it comes down to driver. This is COMPLETELY disregarding the added 200 hp.
    im curious what suspension anyone has specific for drag racing on their cars. as i know, noone does, would it help, sure, is it required? no, i was on eibach springs.

    To claim "too much power" to launch correctly is just absurd. prepped track, sticky tires, low tire psi...hell take a look at any street racing video. guys with MT, DR's and more power lay it down on the street, so its just excuses.
    again, bmw guys think there is some magical mystery in launching their cars..
    600+hp and cant crack 10's and 130+ to me, would be laughable.

    AAAAND.. this is actually lowering my expectations down from 135+mph traps _I_ would expect with 650rwhp in a 3700lb car..
    What is your best ET on manual 335i? I mean do you speak of experience or is this just a theory?

  13. #838
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    for me...

    12.0 was best in 135i 6m
    11.9 was best 335i AT (heavier too though and just 1 trip within 2 weeks of ownership... will def do WAY better now that flatline and im more used to the car)

    I believe LM went 11.1? at 127 ? but his car was AT too

    so yea... i was quicker in the AT , lol... 1.73 60 foot first pass ever on bald nt05r's....

    but I think in perfect conditions a MT can match... so yea im contradicting myself a bit but its not THAT much harder in the MT... but if i went with a prepped track the day i trapped 120 and matched my 1.85 60 foot i woulld of went 11.8 or so in 6m with FBO which is pretty good for 410 hp... add 180-220 hp 10.9 should be do-able , But dZen is right... our 1.8 even 1.7's are a bit lame , lol...

    1.5's would get us like the old schoolers going 11.9@110
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 12-27-2012 at 10:25 AM.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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    If anyone thinks 1.8 60' is good I have nothing else to say Click here to enlarge

    And yes i've had a number of 1.7s too on DRs and i've done 12.0 on street tires all with stock turbos and i've pulled off 122mph traps as well stock turbos..it "can" be done for sure but that's besides the point
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #840
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    no , no way i think 1.8 is good.. but unforetunatly for our car its often not accomplished with 6m
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GetSomeE92 Click here to enlarge
    On any other platform, a manual transmission is typically the way to go for a street car.
    Also on any platform where AWD is available, that is also typically the way to go for a street car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to have to disagree. Have you tried launching an MT 335 with a lot of power? It is very difficult. Especially without LSD. And this car loves to wheel hop. I've seen with my own eyes an AT pull a 1.7 60' on RFTs. I've seen a man who said it was his first time at the strip pull a 1.8 60' the very first try in an AT. I've seen dozens of MTs, and I've never seen anyone pull better than a 1.9, other than me (which is very few and far in between). Also, don't discount the final drive. MTs are crossing the finish line barely into 4th gear, ATs are well into 4th gear.

    Also, I'm pretty sure I am not putting down 650whp at the boost I'm running. I'd say more around 600whp. We will know soon enough as I plan on dynoing the car as well.
    Idk...my first outing at the strip ever, I was cutting 1.91s-1.94s on street tires...LM was there to see it. Open LSD, stock suspension and hoosiers, I cut 1.71-1.73s. This last time at the strip with suspension, bushings, LSD and hoosiers, I cut a few mid 1.6s before my clutch started slipping badly...LM and others were there to see it as well. The AT does have the advantage of not having the power delay on shifts that MTs do, and fewer shifts if one is starting in 2nd. ATs are also geared differently, which is why they finish well into 4th vs. MTs...it's the same reason why ATs doing 60-130s need 2 shifts (3-4-5), whereas the MT can get away with a single shift (3-4). Not to mention the fact that these transmissions just don't seem to like being shifted 1-2 with any urgency whatsoever.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, right on the cusp, with 1.7 60's ET is all about traction and 60'. I think most bmw guys rely on the excuse of AT is faster, when in reality, its no different, especially with NLS. is it "easier" maybe, but in every other platform manual is the prefered and really only acceptable transmission. So everytime i hear someone blame bad ET on MT, well, its really the driver.

    You can argue preload, but again, when any other car can do it, it comes down to driver. This is COMPLETELY disregarding the added 200 hp.
    im curious what suspension anyone has specific for drag racing on their cars. as i know, noone does, would it help, sure, is it required? no, i was on eibach springs.

    To claim "too much power" to launch correctly is just absurd. prepped track, sticky tires, low tire psi...hell take a look at any street racing video. guys with MT, DR's and more power lay it down on the street, so its just excuses.
    again, bmw guys think there is some magical mystery in launching their cars..
    600+hp and cant crack 10's and 130+ to me, would be laughable.

    AAAAND.. this is actually lowering my expectations down from 135+mph traps _I_ would expect with 650rwhp in a 3700lb car..
    I agree...AT vs MT does come down entirely to driver ability. That said, ATs really do simplify things, and they certainly make for repeatable results, which is pretty key in drag racing as you know. Either way, I could care less if he runs 13s, as long as the trap speed is high.
    Click here to enlarge

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    really wish I had a MT

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    right, as i said, driver and excuses. not claiming to be the best as ive never owned a MT, and the one my brother picked up is awd, so i cant go out and "show" people how easy it is.. BUT, then again, you have EVERY OTHER CAR EVER DRAG RACED to show that 6MT is not an excuse, just because its claimed to be..

    hell, iirc, corvette MT's are notoriously hard to shift, and yet.. they boogie in the 1/4 mile.

    like i said, irrelevent if most FBO stock turbo MT cars can cut mid 11's with 400-440 hp, and a ST with 200-250 MORE hp can power down into the 10's.. i would be pissed..but hey, who am I to judge with, unless im mistaken, 2, maybe even 3 records. (TT N54 1/4 mi, non intercooled M3 1/4 mi, and N/A M3 60-130)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    right, as i said, driver and excuses. not claiming to be the best as ive never owned a MT, and the one my brother picked up is awd, so i cant go out and "show" people how easy it is.. BUT, then again, you have EVERY OTHER CAR EVER DRAG RACED to show that 6MT is not an excuse, just because its claimed to be..

    hell, iirc, corvette MT's are notoriously hard to shift, and yet.. they boogie in the 1/4 mile.

    like i said, irrelevent if most FBO stock turbo MT cars can cut mid 11's with 400-440 hp, and a ST with 200-250 MORE hp can power down into the 10's.. i would be pissed..but hey, who am I to judge with, unless im mistaken, 2, maybe even 3 records. (TT N54 1/4 mi, non intercooled M3 1/4 mi, and N/A M3 60-130)
    Your next car needs to be a manual, go set records there Click here to enlarge. I am making no excuses for anything in regards to 6MT and launching..but then again, I've never had a problem getting good launches out of my car at the strip...my issues have always been elsewhere Click here to enlarge.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Your next car needs to be a manual, go set records there Click here to enlarge. I am making no excuses for anything in regards to 6MT and launching..but then again, I've never had a problem getting good launches out of my car at the strip...my issues have always been elsewhere Click here to enlarge.
    exactly, but apparently, your the exception Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    lol I pulled a few 1.85 in my 135 manual with no LSD..went 12.0@118 and 12.1@117 that day...

    than went back in a better DA but track prep was $#@! and i was 120mph but only 12.2 and couldn’t do better than a 2.0 60...

    I don’t think a lot of guys have been on a properly prepped track like we can get regularly at atco at our rentals (shoes stick like glue). That’s really all you need coupled with the right tire/driver. I agree that manuals are not inferior.. my red 135 6m whooped every AT tranny e92 car's ass I raced from a roll or dig around my area. Now my buddy Donny’s 6m 135i puts hurtings on every other e92 he runs too AT or MT because he can drive.. I really need to run him in my AT now that its tuned to the balls to see if I take him from a roll despite being the heavier car (and "superior AT) ... but i doubt it. He’s just g5 iso with a competent driver. If he ever went to the track I’m sure he would pull 1.8 60 or better.. He’s been racing his entire life and knows what to do... I do pretty much agree that there is a misconceptionand a lot of inexperienced 6m guys out there...

    Dzennos list was spot on but you really don't need all the things listed, but certainly could use them all.
    So you are saying that at properly prepped tracks, shoes are supposed to stick to the ground or be hard to pull up? If so then I'm being robbed at my track.

    last month I took my car to the track and watched a guy walk across both lanes to grab something off the track near the tree...In rubber slippers... Not a sign of them sticking to the floor. HAHA.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maui86 Click here to enlarge
    So you are saying that at properly prepped tracks, shoes are supposed to stick to the ground or be hard to pull up? If so then I'm being robbed at my track.

    last month I took my car to the track and watched a guy walk across both lanes to grab something off the track near the tree...In rubber slippers... Not a sign of them sticking to the floor. HAHA.
    If your shoes stick it's a damn well prepped track. If they don't... well, it's a $#@!ty prepped track.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If your shoes stick it's a damn well prepped track. If they don't... well, it's a $#@!ty prepped track.
    Then they waste our time, every time, because they run late "prepping" the track with a tractor that looks like it was jacked from the cane field dragging tires behind it. Then a guy walking behind it(in rubber slippers) making sure there aren't any screws or anything on the track. So instead of having 3hrs of T&T...We get 2. I need to experience this Atco track everyone raves about.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maui86 Click here to enlarge
    Then they waste our time, every time, because they run late "prepping" the track with a tractor that looks like it was jacked from the cane field dragging tires behind it. Then a guy walking behind it(in rubber slippers) making sure there aren't any screws or anything on the track. So instead of having 3hrs of T&T...We get 2. I need to experience this Atco track everyone raves about.
    Agreed, they waste your time.

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