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Thread: Vishnu Single Turbo at PBIR - 12.50@121.6 having to shift all gears at 6300rpm

              
  1. #751
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
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    Carl Morris should be deemed the savior as he said it before anyone else did in here
    Uhhh...hrrrm. I was just speculating/educated guessing. As far as I can tell they have been working on this for a while. What I find interesting is that it would appear they had no intention of talking about it publicly but perhaps changed their minds when I got close?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    I drove a customer car with the twin disk FX850 in it and I really really didn't like it. I don't know if it was install related but the thing was engaging maybe 1-1.5" off the top of the clutch pedal travel. The shop that did the install on his car also installed his UUC SSK and didn't do it right (it was backwards Click here to enlarge) so anything is possible. At this moment I'm not sure if I can personally recommend the FX850 as much as I can the SPEC Stage2+ and 3+ (even with their aluminum flywheel) as I've heard and driven those as well on "this" particular car. One thing to keep in mind is clutch setups can behave differently on different platforms so comparing a twin disk on another car to this car can be apples to oranges.

    If I do get to personally try another twin disk CM FX-850 and it behaves a bit better (clutch pedal travel mostly) I'll definitely look into talking to CM and possibly carrying this clutch as well along side SPEC. I'm sticking to recommending and carrying ONLY parts that are WELL known to perform on this platform and have been tested significantly both on on the road and drag strip and/or road courses. This way proper recommendations for the type of driving can be made and people don't need to guess when making their choices out there. We simply won't just put up anything and everything on the website just so we have them available, not what we do...
    I actually can't recommend the FX850. It took a long time to break in, and unless you can shift with your toes it's impossible to drive in stop-and-go traffic. The car just launches every time. As far as driveability on the street is concerned it's total dog meat, loud and stiff.

    That being said, once you are moving on a road course it's pure sex. BAM! torque shock all the way to the rear. You know that sucker is going to engage. I love it, but I can't recommend it to everyone.

    Come try it sometime if you are in the Bay.
    pt6466 FFTEC 355i
    gtx3076r FFTEC Evo IX
    Beat up 240sx

  3. #753
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
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    I actually can't recommend the FX850. It took a long time to break in, and unless you can shift with your toes it's impossible to drive in stop-and-go traffic. The car just launches every time. As far as driveability on the street is concerned it's total dog meat, loud and stiff.

    That being said, once you are moving on a road course it's pure sex. BAM! torque shock all the way to the rear. You know that sucker is going to engage. I love it, but I can't recommend it to everyone.

    Come try it sometime if you are in the Bay.
    That's exactly the feeling I got driving it up here...

    and thanks for the invite! Never been there, would love to visit, say hi to Shiv and all Click here to enlarge


  4. #754
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
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    A DMFW is something completely different and will behave differently based upon applied torque and RPM. Both elements are coupled to something heavy and metal. What happens to the coupling mechanism (springs) and it's effect of the two masses that are spinning semi-dependantly with each other, and the effect this racket has on the toothed wheel as it passes the magnetic pick-up is the real question here.

    shiv
    Magnetic pickup? CPS is hall effect not magnetic which is part of the reason why vibrations there don't matter as much as with a magnet based CPS

    Did you have something else other than CPS in mind when you said magnetic pickup?


  5. #755
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
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    Uhhh...hrrrm. I was just speculating/educated guessing. As far as I can tell they have been working on this for a while. What I find interesting is that it would appear they had no intention of talking about it publicly but perhaps changed their minds when I got close?
    they didnt change their minds, they wanted to stay quiet and say all along that NOTHING was wrong and mislead. THIS is why YOU get the credit. I dont care if they were secretly talking about it for months, noone said anything until you did. IF, IF it works, take a bow. IF it doesnt, at least you proved why its better to get public involved on things rather than promote superiority and an infallible persona

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    they didnt change their minds, they wanted to stay quiet and say all along that NOTHING was wrong and mislead. THIS is why YOU get the credit. I dont care if they were secretly talking about it for months, noone said anything until you did. IF, IF it works, take a bow. IF it doesnt, at least you proved why its better to get public involved on things rather than promote superiority and an infallible persona
    Just to be clear - Shiv was not part of the discussion prior. It was only myself, tmo335tt and the 3rd guy. Since we were all in the same boat we decided to start a discussion to tell each other what we had done, and what we were thinking about doing.

    I did not say anything in this thread because I didn't want to until I had put my new SMFW and clutch in and tried it. The cat was let out of the bag prior to that, so that's when I went ahead and confirmed it.

    If it makes everyone here happy....Carl, you are the man!!! Great job.
    I just want my damn car to work!

  7. #757
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
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    Just to be clear - Shiv was not part of the discussion prior. It was only myself, tmo335tt and the 3rd guy. Since we were all in the same boat we decided to start a discussion to tell each other what we had done, and what we were thinking about doing.

    I did not say anything in this thread because I didn't want to until I had put my new SMFW and clutch in and tried it. The cat was let out of the bag prior to that, so that's when I went ahead and confirmed it.

    If it makes everyone here happy....Carl, you are the man!!! Great job.
    I just want my damn car to work!
    I didnt mean to lump you in, obviously you posted, or at least responded to posts, removing you from that category

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
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    Just to be clear - Shiv was not part of the discussion prior. It was only myself, tmo335tt and the 3rd guy. Since we were all in the same boat we decided to start a discussion to tell each other what we had done, and what we were thinking about doing.

    I did not say anything in this thread because I didn't want to until I had put my new SMFW and clutch in and tried it. The cat was let out of the bag prior to that, so that's when I went ahead and confirmed it.

    If it makes everyone here happy....Carl, you are the man!!! Great job.
    I just want my damn car to work!
    Just disable misfire detection and go back to the damn track! Click here to enlarge one run and u can flash back after to whatever you want.

  9. #759
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    Just disable misfire detection and go back to the damn track! Click here to enlarge one run and u can flash back after to whatever you want.
    +100


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    Just disable misfire detection and go back to the damn track! Click here to enlarge one run and u can flash back after to whatever you want.
    They can't flash at home. He would have to mail the DME in for that...
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  11. #761
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    Just disable the clearly inadequate DME software feature made for emissions guys Click here to enlarge if you get a misfire you'll know you got it only this way the DME won't worry about the environment and won't cut fuel out

    If there was a way to disable the resulting DME fuel cut while keeping misfire detection on to set the code and the CEL (so it tells you that it thinks a misfire happened) that'd probably be the best intermediary solution until its possible to adjust misfire detection itself more accordingly

    In terms of scoping the CPS signal, Shiv had his scope hooked up to the CPS signal wire, bypassed procede's CPS circuit disabling it, when he was up here 2 years ago and after 5 days of running the car all sorts of ways including scope readings there was no noise detected in the signal and I had my DMFW in there back then too
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-14-2012 at 08:43 PM.


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    So is there actual misfiring going on at 6300 rpm or is it a "false positive" misfire detection? So with the misfire detection disabled can the ST's with DMFW run just as fast as the SMFW ST's?

  13. #763
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TCW Click here to enlarge
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    So is there actual misfiring going on at 6300 rpm or is it a "false positive" misfire detection? So with the misfire detection disabled can the ST's with DMFW run just as fast as the SMFW ST's?
    Why not put a DMFW on a SMFW car and get it to misfire in the name of science (or in this case, business)? Shiv could've (or should've) done this easily instead of having his customers go out buying flywheels


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    They can't flash at home. He would have to mail the DME in for that...
    I keep assuming everyone runs cobb as the base. Forgot all about the Vishnu flash. Honest mistake.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    Just disable misfire detection and go back to the damn track! Click here to enlarge one run and u can flash back after to whatever you want.
    I will if the SMFW doesn't fix it. Otherwise, like Terry said, I'll have to mail my DME in. The clutch/SMFW will get here before then so we will just have to wait.

    Trust me, I'm way more anxious than anyone here...that clutch is getting broken in within a day or 2. I'll drive all day if I have to.

  16. #766
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TCW Click here to enlarge
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    So is there actual misfiring going on at 6300 rpm or is it a "false positive" misfire detection? So with the misfire detection disabled can the ST's with DMFW run just as fast as the SMFW ST's?
    Excellent question. Despite the literature saying it would be a false misfire detection Shiv indicated he thinks it's an actual misfire:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shiv
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    In the case of high HP 6MT cars with stock DMFW, disabling misfire detection isn't the problem itself. The more likely problem is ignition timing/spark advance jitter caused by an erratic CPS waveform. The scope readings showed the falling edge of the crank sensor signal to move around quite a bit when the flywheel induced error occurs (high RPM, high boost).
    It's not clear how he is determining the crank sensor signal is moving around as a result of a "flywheel error", and not an actual misfire. It's very difficult to differentiate between the two IMHO. And any sensor noise would be picked up as a gap error. But at this point these guys have flywheels on the way so let's all just hope that fixes their problems.

    Someone posted this video on e90post which I found useful in understanding exactly how the DMFW operates:

    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-14-2012 at 11:43 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  17. #767
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Why not put a DMFW on a SMFW car and get it to misfire in the name of science (or in this case, business)? Shiv could've (or should've) done this easily instead of having his customers go out buying flywheels
    Good point.
    FBO / HFS-4 / Cobb PTF tune

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Magnetic pickup? CPS is hall effect not magnetic which is part of the reason why vibrations there don't matter as much as with a magnet based CPS

    Did you have something else other than CPS in mind when you said magnetic pickup?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hall effect IS magnetic. It's a magnet (generally a rare earth magnet) with a ferrous object passing through its magnetic field, inducing a current.

  19. #769
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hall effect IS magnetic. It's a magnet (generally a rare earth magnet) with a ferrous object passing through its magnetic field, inducing a current.
    There is no magnetic "material" in a hall effect sensor. It uses an electric current to create a magnetic field (a la electro magnet). Wikipedia is a good source of info. Here's also an article more related to CPS

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...n_sensors.aspx

    I guess by pickup he meant magnetic "field"
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-15-2012 at 02:39 PM.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Excellent question. Despite the literature saying it would be a false misfire detection Shiv indicated he thinks it's an actual misfire:



    It's not clear how he is determining the crank sensor signal is moving around as a result of a "flywheel error", and not an actual misfire. It's very difficult to differentiate between the two IMHO. And any sensor noise would be picked up as a gap error. But at this point these guys have flywheels on the way so let's all just hope that fixes their problems.

    Someone posted this video on e90post which I found useful in understanding exactly how the DMFW operates:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=DbvP5EvpUbA
    Good video. The misfire may be recorded when the "bump stops" of the second stage contact at high frequency. That connection would probably be pretty rough. Just speculating.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
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    Very nice of you to notice... I havent been on the post for over a year now.
    Why would you lie about this ? You where on there less than a month ago?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sigma 3 Click here to enlarge
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    Why would you lie about this ? You where on there less than a month ago?
    Sure... you are very free to point out the 10-15 posts that I have made in the last 6 months in the tech section. I guess you misunderstood when I meant; which was actively participated.

    Curious when the Supra comment was made...
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Any updates? Someone has to have gotten their SMFW by now right?

    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    Any updates? Someone has to have gotten their SMFW by now right?
    They have to give time for Shiv to finish modifying the logs and give the thumbs up before posting.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    They have to give time for Shiv to finish modifying the logs and give the thumbs up before posting.Click here to enlarge
    close, they are waiting for their ECU's to get mailed back with misfire detection off, to claim the fw was the culprit..

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