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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry Steve, AA's history is nowhere near as pretty as they or Akash would have you believe. Don't get me wrong, AA has done some cool stuff over the years, and they used to be trailblazers, but they definitely are far from perfect, and if you ask me, they have become lazy Dinan wannabes. And as far as Cobb is concerned, they've accomplished more in the last 8 years than AA has accomplished in 30. FWIW, my Cobb/PTF tuned car put down 456whp and 490wtq with a clutch that was slipping on the dyno. And unlike AA, Cobb has remained dedicated to achieving more and more with their product, they haven't jumped ship or tried to charge people for the favor.
    Im speaking from personal experience with all bmw's running AA stuff, not just e9x's.

    we could argue dyno #'s all day bra Click here to enlarge

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    both are flashes, right? JB4 can be added on top of both for more functions right? Ive seen cobb logs and power curves on an n54, and ive seen what AA does over 30 years of tuning, i prefer AA for bmw's.
    AA makes quality products, I don't think anyone would downplay that. BUT from a tuning standpoint, COBB (and even the JB4) offers A LOT more on the user's end then the AA product. While any COBB/JB4 user can jump on their computer and adjust the tune to their liking, the AA Flash doesn't give you that option -- You get when AA sells & if you want anything changed, you gotta go back to them.

    Perfect example is yesterday: I was able to flash the DME & run the Stock, 93 & E85 Tunes all on the dyno. IF I was using AA's tune, I would not have been able to do that.

    IMO, a GIAC vs. AA vs. RENNtech flash would be a more accurate comparison. All are flashes that are loaded on to the DME by the vendor & no adjustments can be made by the user.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  3. #28
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    Gentleman,

    These turbos are nothing more than an experimental unit we had made. The post's quoted are from a "new" employee of ours which is still deep in the learning process as i'm sure a bunch of you are. We have not given him an Active screen name for this reason. It shouldn't of been posted but go easy on him, experts weren't born overnight.

  4. #29
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    I think my opinion is being misconstrued.

    Active Autowerk is a full service company. Its not their business model to produce a mix-match of parts or hardware. From their turbo beginnings when they first came around, its always been complete kits. So its not unusual for them to do the same here. Its not just hardware with no software solution. Their market share and fanbase is larger than just a select few.
    Im the first guy to say "JB4 FTMFW!" but nothing is stopping a end user from going that route as well.

    If you want to compare across other platforms, we can. I havent seen anything to suggest that someone wanting to tweak things cannot. COBB and GTR for example, since its in the same era. AMS builds/built most of, if not all of the fastest GTR's. You want a beast GTR? Get one built by AMS. You want to go beyond what they hooked you up with, go for it. Tuning has been altered by various people, Sean Ivey for instance. What does he use? COBB? I dont actually know. Point is that certain business models are geared toward a focal point, What other decide to do beyond it, is on them.

    The point being, you cant rag on a company thats entire model is to target the people that want a complete kit.

    That differs greatly from the shivs project (yes, project Click here to enlarge ) because he is a tuner, and outsourced someone for hardware and attempts to retain full control over all the kits. This is also i believe his first attempt at offering a complete kit.

    Someone can correct me if im wrong here.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I think my opinion is being misconstrued.

    Active Autowerk is a full service company. Its not their business model to produce a mix-match of parts or hardware. From their turbo beginnings when they first came around, its always been complete kits. So its not unusual for them to do the same here. Its not just hardware with no software solution. Their market share and fanbase is larger than just a select few.
    Im the first guy to say "JB4 FTMFW!" but nothing is stopping a end user from going that route as well.

    If you want to compare across other platforms, we can. I havent seen anything to suggest that someone wanting to tweak things cannot. COBB and GTR for example, since its in the same era. AMS builds/built most of, if not all of the fastest GTR's. Tuning has been altered by various people, Sean Ivey for instance. What does he use? COBB? I dont actually know. Point is that certain business models are geared toward a focal point, What other decide to do beyond it, is on them.

    The point being, you cant rag on a company thats entire model is to target the people that want a complete kit.

    That differs greatly from the shivs project (yes, project Click here to enlarge ) because he is a tuner, and outsourced someone for hardware and attempts to retain full control over all the kits. This is also i believe his first attempt at offering a complete kit.

    Someone can correct me if im wrong here.
    You are 100% correct . It all comes down to the end user and whether they want to play around with setting's and such or they just want some extra power and be done with it. Most of our customers love the fact that they do not have to play around with the tune and they can just drive without any frustrations or problems.

    I personally like playing around with settings and trying to squeeze out every last hp out of my engine. You must remember not all customers are gear heads and into this as much as some of you are.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    You are 100% correct . It all comes down to the end user and whether they want to play around with setting's and such or they just want some extra power and be done with it. Most of our customers love the fact that they do not have to play around with the tune and they can just drive without any frustrations or problems.
    This is a genuine question, not looking to turn it into an argument -- Is AA looking into E85 tuning on the N54 with their tune options?
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
    You get a separate charge per map! The simon alone is $300. It then vin locks to your car, and cannot be used by another car.
    Why shouldn't it be a separate charge per map? Cobb doesn't vin lock? In the Subaru world it did.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
    If AA wants to be competitive, they should mirror cobbs approach. Re-tool simon to not Vin-lock to specific car, Increase the price of Simon, and give the maps free. Lastly, they should sell their upgraded twins separately. Anything other than the above, simply won't attract any attention.
    Oh dear, AA better be reading what you are saying. Their business hinges on it.

    The upgrade isn't even out and you are jumping to conclusions.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry Steve, AA's history is nowhere near as pretty as they or Akash would have you believe. Don't get me wrong, AA has done some cool stuff over the years, and they used to be trailblazers, but they definitely are far from perfect, and if you ask me, they have become lazy Dinan wannabes. And as far as Cobb is concerned, they've accomplished more in the last 8 years than AA has accomplished in 30. FWIW, my Cobb/PTF tuned car put down 456whp and 490wtq with a clutch that was slipping on the dyno. And unlike AA, Cobb has remained dedicated to achieving more and more with their product, they haven't jumped ship or tried to charge people for the favor.
    Nobody is perfect but calling them lazy Dinan wannabes is idiotic.

    Dinan doesn't even have forced induction options for the S65. AA has how many? AA also is not just strapping on a vortech blower and calling it a day they have several different options producing different looking curves.

    Dinan wannabe's?

    Look at this curve:

    Click here to enlarge

    When you seem something else tuned THAT well let me know. Pay attention to the 0 smoothing as well.

    Saying Cobb has accomplished more when they are doing different things in a different market makes no sense. Cobb isn't providing hardware like Active is, you are comparing apples and oranges.

    Your world seems to be N54 centered and you are applying vast generalizations based on it. Expand your thinking a bit and maybe your knowledge will expand with it. Very narrow and incorrect view applied in your post.. which is nowhere near as pretty as AA's tuning.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nobody is perfect but calling them lazy Dinan wannabes is idiotic.

    Dinan doesn't even have forced induction options for the S65. AA has how many? AA also is not just strapping on a vortech blower and calling it a day they have several different options producing different looking curves.

    Dinan wannabe's?

    Look at this curve:

    http://www.germanboost.com/attachmen...9&d=1353448889

    When you seem something else tuned THAT well let me know. Pay attention to the 0 smoothing as well.

    Saying Cobb has accomplished more when they are doing different things in a different market makes no sense. Cobb isn't providing hardware like Active is, you are comparing apples and oranges.

    Your world seems to be N54 centered and you are applying vast generalizations based on it. Expand your thinking a bit and maybe your knowledge will expand with it. Very narrow and incorrect view applied in your post.. which is nowhere near as pretty as AA's tuning.
    I think most refer to tuning in the N54/55 world where Active hasn't been as solid as some of the other tuners out there.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    I think most refer to tuning in the N54/55 world where Active hasn't been as solid as some of the other tuners out there.
    Yes and as I said that is a narrow focus. The world doesn't revolve around the N54, Active does lot's of work.

  12. #37
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes and as I said that is a narrow focus. The world doesn't revolve around the N54, Active does lot's of work.
    This thread does though...

  13. #38
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    This thread does though...
    So what? When others say idiotic things about a company as a whole basing it on a single market it's rather absurd.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So what? When others say idiotic things about a company as a whole basing it on a single market it's rather absurd.
    Again, comments were in regard to the N54 tune not any other platform. As it pertains to the N54 I agree with @DefactoM6 .

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    This is a genuine question, not looking to turn it into an argument -- Is AA looking into E85 tuning on the N54 with their tune options?
    I am very interested in this being an e85 user myself, but we have some other projects that are priority right now.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why shouldn't it be a separate charge per map? Cobb doesn't vin lock? In the Subaru world it did.

    Unfortunately we do not make the simon tool nor do we have a choice on the vin-lock issue. The simon tool can be unlocked by the manufacturer for around $180.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    Again, comments were in regard to the N54 tune not any other platform. As it pertains to the N54 I agree with @DefactoM6 .
    So you agree they are lazy Dinan wannabe's when they are testing turbo upgrades and doing things Dinan is not? Ya, your statement makes just as much sense as defactom6's.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately we do not make the simon tool nor do we have a choice on the vin-lock issue. The simon tool can be unlocked by the manufacturer for around $180.
    There you go.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Oh dear, AA better be reading what you are saying. Their business hinges on it.

    The upgrade isn't even out and you are jumping to conclusions.
    Darn it!: "You must spread reputation around before rating this user again."

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately we do not make the simon tool nor do we have a choice on the vin-lock issue. The simon tool can be unlocked by the manufacturer for around $180.
    Still not competitive, hence the sales flop in our market segment.

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    I consider AAs hardware to be top-notch, but their tuning side to be lacking. They arent trying to compete with the Terrys/Shivs of the world. Instead, they are offering the hardware that we all need, and making these products the golf-standard. Thats why i have a set of AA DPs in my living room.

    Oh, and the fact that they are 2 hours away also swayed me to get AA DPs.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So you agree they are lazy Dinan wannabe's when they are testing turbo upgrades and doing things Dinan is not? Ya, your statement makes just as much sense as defactom6's.
    I agree with their tuning solution being behind BMS/Procede/Cobb and similiar to a Dinan product.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately we do not make the simon tool nor do we have a choice on the vin-lock issue. The simon tool can be unlocked by the manufacturer for around $180.
    For large turbos we have a very well proven tuning solution. JB4 G5 ISO w/ BMS flash to augment fueling, etc. I can send you guys the tables/values we enter in the flash so you can use the AA flash for those purposes then the JB4 G5 ISO for boost control, fine tuning, end features. That would be my advice. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
    Still not competitive, hence the sales flop in our market segment.
    I don't get what part of they focus on multiple markets that you don't understand. It's like saying Cobb's sales have flopped in the M3 market.

    No offense, they are highly competitive in a market with a higher price point and more difficult tuning. Several of those BMW markets, actually.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    I agree with their tuning solution being behind BMS/Procede/Cobb and similiar to a Dinan product.
    So tuning is static? BMS stopped at the JB3?

    They don't target the N54 aggressively. They make more on a supercharger sale for the M3 likely than Terry does with 30 JB4's.

    It's different markets and approaches. Just because a tuner doesn't have the best offering for the N54 doesn't mean they are bad. UGR doesn't tackle the N54 last I checked, guess what, they are still top notch.

    Some guys, not you specifically, have their heads way too far up their N54's ass.

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