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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    Pakistan has approved no such use. The drones flying there have been launched from bases within afganistan which why there is so much uproar from the Pakistan government. That aside however, killing ANYONE in these circumstances without due process or a trial of any kind is not right.
    So your position is that we should only capture terrorists with ground troops, and that they should all be given the right to a trial? So what laws will they be tried by? They aren't US citizens. I agree that US citizens should receive due process. The whole new-war paradigm makes things more difficult. It use to be easy to identify the bad guy - they were wearing different uniforms. Now there is no official "war zone" and the nationalities are just as diverse as the countries in which they are hiding.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    lol, you do know that the US supported the Irak in the Irak/Iran war? Weapons, supplies, you name it. 20 years later the Irak was the enemy #1, with their huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction...isn't that what Rumsfeld and your government told you? They wouldn't lie, or would they? Click here to enlarge But hey, it's only Irak after all... So who cares as long as there is a justification to keep your weapon industry rolling?
    Yep the US has supported a lot of countries, this changes the War on Terror how? Drones taking out anti-US targets doesn't change because of this and trust me I'm far more educated in history than... well, you.

    Whether they lie or don't lie it doesn't change the fact the US will use drones to exterminate targets overseas. I have no problem with it once again. I have a problem with drones being used against American citizens without due process.

    You act like Al Qaeda doesn't exist and the US wasn't attacked. Oh and that Pakistan was not harboring the world's number 1 fugitive. Stay neutral Luxembourger nobody is asking for your position or opinion on anything.

  3. #103
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Sticky your reply to me and David displays excacly the mentality the Americans have.

    "USA can do what ever it wants as long as it is in the interest of the USofA. Other factors do-not-matter, EVER."

    You can be pretty sure that US is conductiong operations within Iran already, just as they are in Syria, Pakistan, were in Egypt and Libya. anything else is ignorrance.

    Killing innocent people in Pakistan (not talking about Bin Laden because he was shot) using drones is very similar to your Ambassador being killed. Both innocent, both on their own ground.

    Take the time and read through some of the wikileaks documents and you can see how widely the US is operating.
    It can do what it wants for the most part certainly in its defense.

    They are killing terrorist targets in Pakistan. Bin Laden wasn't innocent. The number 3 guy of Al Qaeda killed by drones isn't innocent. I love how you just gloss this over.

    Killing terrorists with drones is not even remotely the same as the US Ambassador being killed. Your point makes no sense.

    I know how widely the US is operating. It's a huge net with 16 intelligence agencies. I hope they kill every last one of the terrorists.

  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    Joe, you make no sense here. You are against the US flying a drone over a foreign country and killing a US citizen but that same US drone can kill a non-US citizen? Where is the due process you talk about for the non-US citizen.

    The US should not be allowed to operate without regard to international laws.
    I'm more concerned about US Citizens obviously so it makes complete sense to me.

    If someone declares themselves as a member of Al Qaeda as Bin Laden or Al Zawawhalajljalajk whatever his name is they are valid targets don't you think?

  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    Pakistan has approved no such use. The drones flying there have been launched from bases within afganistan which why there is so much uproar from the Pakistan government. That aside however, killing ANYONE in these circumstances without due process or a trial of any kind is not right.
    So what do you propose? Apprehending them 1 by 1 and giving each a day in court?

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Obviously we are not targeting Pakistani citizens. We are targeting the terrorists that have infiltrated their country
    What is so hard to understand about this?

  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So what do you propose? Apprehending them 1 by 1 and giving each a day in court?
    This may be a hard concept for some but every individual (american or otherwise) is innocent until proven guilty.

    The approach of execution based upon nationality and ethnic background was tried by someone once...remember his name?
    Click here to enlarge

    I will quit being rude if you quit being stupid.

  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    This may be a hard concept for some but every individual (american or otherwise) is innocent until proven guilty.

    The approach of execution based upon nationality and ethnic background was tried by someone once...remember his name?
    If someone declares themself as an enemy of the state is that not an admission of guilt?

    I believe you are referring to Hitler. Or Stalin. Both would work but it's not the same thing.

  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    This may be a hard concept for some but every individual (american or otherwise) is innocent until proven guilty.

    The approach of execution based upon nationality and ethnic background was tried by someone once...remember his name?
    so lets handle things your peachy rosy way, fair trial for everyone, no shooting, get real!! What if god forbid your wife or daughter or mom was killed in the next terrorist act on our soil, i think you would want a government in place trying to prevent that at all cost!! The reason why you cant capture and try all these people is that it breads more terrorism, if we captured bin laden they would hold up a school or hijack a plane and demand his release or they shoot a kid in florida live on the news every hour until his release, we cant risk that so therefore all these men who are determined as enemies must be killed.

    did you ever hear that you cant have peace with being willing to defend it with war

  10. #110
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    I'm all for due process for American citizens. With the terrorists if you attack America, say you intend to attack America again, are training people to attack America/Americans, etc., what need is there to give this person the same rights as an American citizen?

  11. #111
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Again, it is impossible to discuss these things with most Americans, due to the fact that they ar faaaaaar to self centered and many will NEVER have the intellect needed to look at things from both sides of the table. To many, America is the center of the universe, anyone not American is secondary, and insignificant casualty of the American way.

    Sticky what do you even know about my friend from Luxembourg and his knowledge of history to make a statement like that?.
    How do you even know that what you have been tought in school on history is unbiast and true? Again its typical American ignorance thinking that you know best. Americas superpower mentality will never ever give you a clear and true picture of what is actual and what is fiction.. You should watch Wag the dog with Dustin Hoffman and DeNiro.. great display on how you could possible manipulate the ignorance of many Americans.

    How many American civilians have been killed in terrorist attacks sine WWII?
    How many innocent civillians has America killed in various countries either by invasion, proxy wars or by remote since WWII?

    I'm by no means saying that 9/11 was ok or it will EVER be justified, or any other terrorist act by that matter. But the US has a funny way of calling everything against their interests "terrorist acts" and everything in their favor a military action nessesary to protect the American way of life and the freedom of Americans.

    A drone bombing a wedding in Pakistan killing women and children, how can you call that anything else than a terrorist act? Yes maybe there was someone attending that had some links to a terrorist organisation.. fantastic reasoning.

    America will always find a new enemy, because its good for business. And if it means that civillians will die and American soildiers also, then so be it. Business is business.
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  12. #112
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    and many will NEVER have the intellect needed to look at things from both sides of the table. To many, America is the center of the universe, anyone not American is secondary, and insignificant casualty of the American way.
    If we're so stupid why are we dominating you and not the other way around?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Sticky what do you even know about my friend from Luxembourg and his knowledge of history to make a statement like that?.
    Because I studied history at a university superior to anything available in Luxemberg and on top of that I was a pretty damn good student. I know my history, thanks, and like I said likely better than anyone here.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    How do you even know that what you have been tought in school on history is unbiast and true?
    Because on top of that I also have a computer and have traveled? Not everything we are taught comes straight from books btw.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Again its typical American ignorance thinking that you know best. Americas superpower mentality will never ever give you a clear and true picture of what is actual and what is fiction.. You should watch Wag the dog with Dustin Hoffman and DeNiro.. great display on how you could possible manipulate the ignorance of many Americans.
    You want me to watch a fictional American movie to learn about history and politics? That's wonderful, lol.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    How many American civilians have been killed in terrorist attacks sine WWII?
    How many innocent civillians has America killed in various countries either by invasion, proxy wars or by remote since WWII?
    Not anywhere near as many as Stalin killed of his own people. You might forget America was in a Cold War with the Soviet Union after World War II. I'm glad we won.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    I'm by no means saying that 9/11 was ok or it will EVER be justified, or any other terrorist act by that matter. But the US has a funny way of calling everything against their interests "terrorist acts" and everything in their favor a military action nessesary to protect the American way of life and the freedom of Americans.
    Yes, they've gone super broad with it and likely way too far. I don't agree with that but I completely agree with eliminating terrorists. Don't you see the difference?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    A drone bombing a wedding in Pakistan killing women and children, how can you call that anything else than a terrorist act? Yes maybe there was someone attending that had some links to a terrorist organisation.. fantastic reasoning.
    Well who was the terrorist? What did he do? Fact is the drones have been very successful. It's not like every strike kills civilians they are stunningly precise. And they have taken out far more terrorists than innocent bystanders. It's sad a civilian might die but they might want to tell their government to quit hiding terrorists.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    America will always find a new enemy, because its good for business. And if it means that civillians will die and American soildiers also, then so be it. Business is business.
    If you think it is all about money you may be mistaken as these wars aren't cheap.

  13. #113
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    It does not take intellect to be aggressive and dominate. You probably proved my point with our last post.

    Every dictator the world has seen has dominated through fear and not intellect, dictators killed off the wise because the objected the way the dictators ruled. In the end the dictator failed because the cause is not just.

    Remember the bully from school (everyone had one) he dominated through fear and size, but didn't really go far in life Click here to enlarge
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  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    It does not take intellect to be aggressive and dominate. You probably proved my point with our last post.
    Right it doesn't take intellect and Americans are stupid. More nobel laureates than any country but ok. First on the moon but ok. We're clearly all stupid and you Europeans are oh so much smarter.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Every dictator the world has seen has dominated through fear and not intellect, dictators killed off the wise because the objected the way the dictators ruled. In the end the dictator failed because the cause is not just.
    No kidding, and America doesn't have dictators promoting genocide.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Remember the bully from school (everyone had one) he dominated through fear and size, but didn't really go far in life
    Wow what a valid analogy. America is just a bully that went nowhere. That makes sense.

  15. #115
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    Not going to split hairs here since you know your history but probably the biggest contributer to the US being able to put a man on the moon was a German Nazi defector called Werner Von Braun, but that is another story.

    On the last comment I think its a very valid analogy, I actually think that America is going nowhere with their foreign policy and terror methods, and this will in the end be the downfall of America. For bullies it just takes growing up, for Empires it takes decates if not centruries.
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  16. #116
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Not going to split hairs here since you know your history but probably the biggest contributer to the US being able to put a man on the moon was a German Nazi defector called Werner Von Braun, but that is another story.
    And Germans among others contributed to the Manhattan Project. It doesn't change the fact America is not stupid. We do have the best colleges in the world after all.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    On the last comment I think its a very valid analogy, I actually think that America is going nowhere with their foreign policy and terror methods, and this will in the end be the downfall of America. For bullies it just takes growing up, for Empires it takes decates if not centruries.
    I'm sorry you are so anti-American.

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    Im not anti American at all, I am anti american foreign policy and world domination tendencies, and people that justify the sacrifice of innocent lives to defend their viewpoint.

    Not saying this about you or all Americans, Europeans or for matter any other group of people, but being educated and being ignorant, or even stupid can go hand in hand, I know a bunch of highly educated people that do not function well when not within their educational comfort zone.
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  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Im not anti American at all, I am anti american foreign policy and world domination tendencies, and people that justify the sacrifice of innocent lives to defend their viewpoint.

    Not saying this about you or all Americans, Europeans or for matter any other group of people, but being educated and being ignorant, or even stupid can go hand in hand, I know a bunch of highly educated people that do not function well when not within their educational comfort zone.
    I don't like the whole American empire thing that started after World War I either. But I mean it could be worse. You could have Nazi Germany in control. Or Russia.

    Is the USA going too far and making enemies in the process? Yes. They could exercise this power in other ways. The wars aren't helping anything but it's too late for that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Not saying this about you or all Americans
    You basically called all Americans stupid. And there definitely are stupid Americans. But there are stupid Europeans too as well as people anywhere else.

  19. #119
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And Germans among others contributed to the Manhattan Project. It doesn't change the fact America is not stupid. We do have the best colleges in the world after all.
    I'm sorry you are so anti-American.
    I'm so glad I can learn from your wealth of knowledge every day! You're truly an inspiration for me.
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  20. #120
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    I'm so glad I can learn from your wealth of knowledge every day! You're truly an inspiration for me.
    There you go, that's the spirit.

  21. #121
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    I'm so glad I can learn from your wealth of knowledge every day! You're truly an inspiration for me.
    Click here to enlarge
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  22. #122
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    Are you two dating?

  23. #123
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    Sticky... is it already the "out of arguments, play the gay card" time?

    With all that education, I was expecting more class.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Sticky... is it already the "out of arguments, play the gay card" time?

    With all that education, I was expecting more class.
    One of you could be a woman. I wasn't calling you gay.

    Plus it was just a joke... you Europeans are too easily offended. But it was probably my evil American side that made me do it. My goal of course being emotional domination over you.

    I was hoping you would break into tears and then I could take your stuff.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Sticky... is it already the "out of arguments, play the gay card" time?

    With all that education, I was expecting more class.
    This is what you get Sveinn if you argu with Americans,they are always RightClick here to enlarge

    Just tell them they are the best because they really think they are,that is why a lot off people in the world do not like the US.


    @Sticky,Offcourse now it is a joke ,come on this is the way you are.

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