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  1. #1
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Why S85 Tubular Headers Work

    Following Sticky's leak of a photo of the comparison of the S85 headers vs tubular design from our online images, the actual brief write up follows.
    First posted in Bimmerboost as promised!


    This is a very common question we get from the V10 community.


    We thought it would be a good idea to post up a brief write up about why it is that so many owners with tubular headers (evolve / supersprint etc) are achieving near or over 500whp dynojet and 460+ dyno dynamics consistently across the world.


    To show you we have taken some pictures comparing the stock primaries to that of a long tube header design. In this case it's the Evolve one as that's all we have but it gives you a very clear illustration:


    Image 1


    Click here to enlarge


    We can clearly see with the headers aligned that the stock primaries work their way down to a very crushed section with a very sharp downward angle. This is far from ideal for optimal gas flow. While some may think the cross sectional area is maintained it is not. The Tubular headers have a perfect radius and have a larger inner diameter.


    Image 2


    Click here to enlarge


    Here we can again see the stock primary crushing down and the difference in the pipe size.


    Image 3


    Click here to enlarge


    Again we can see how the stock primaries all come together and are crushed. We can also see that there is no real design behind the collector as BMW were forced to go into the CAT. Essentially the collector has no 'pulling' effect like on a true high flow merge collector.


    Image 4


    Click here to enlarge


    Showing the overall length and smoother larger flow of the tubular headers


    Image 5


    Click here to enlarge


    Another image showing the pipe crushing and the multiple bends in the stock primary setup vs the much smoother bigger direct path of the tubular headers






    So is it just this that allows the consistently tested +35-50hp from going tubular headers from stock headers with CATs OR the +15-20hp over a set of decatted stock primaries (Evolve RACE R)?


    In way yes but also no.


    Once you go for a header of this type you not only improve the gas flow and scavenging effect from the merge collectors but you also reduce back pressure and combustion temperatures / pressure. The DME will normally not come close to hitting the set ignition targets set by BMW with the stock headers/CATS. Once the combustion process is improved the level of knock will also be drastically reduced and the DME will push much closer to the set ignition targets.


    So, you get the gains from a much more free flowing path for the gasses, a larger cross section area of the tubular header primaries and then also the effect of the DME adapting to a higher ignition timing.


    Some engine will gain more power straight away than others and this is mostly down to the ignition adaption taking place faster whereas other engines will take their time as they may have a long term adaption for timing which is retarded.




    Image 6


    Click here to enlarge


    Showing a tubular header




    Image 7


    Click here to enlarge


    Showing a complete stock header.




    Dyno graphs


    Dyno graph showing gain from tubular headers fully adapted and on a very low mileage engine:


    Click here to enlarge


    Again, here we see the stock headers flow well enough put around 5000rpm after which they start becoming restrictive. The larger pipe diameter, reduction in back pressure, free flowing design and higher achieved ignition timing give substantial gains in performance.


    Dyno graphs of engine now quite fully adapted dyno tested straight away (MAHA)


    Click here to enlarge






    As mentioned this is a brief explanation so everyone can understand it. We hope this comes across as useful.

  2. #2
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    Very nice explanation, and beautiful set of headers. The difference is no joke!!!
    John 3:16


  3. #3
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    So how is the access to the exhaust studs? Agency Power has some pretty tight spots to try to get in and tighten the exhaust nuts...does yours have more clearance?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    The tubular headers from us are are much easier to fit as the primaries are fitted individually and then the collector shown below is slotted on afterwards. This alone gives so much more access to the fitter.

    The AP headers are all one piece and this will be much harder to fit.

    Our collector:

    Click here to enlarge

  5. #5
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    Very nice, quality work. I enjoy seeing build threads from your shop. Breaking into the N54 market anytime soon? Click here to enlarge
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

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    Hi,

    we have been doing N54 for years now.
    We have our own downpipes and intercoolers for them.
    Shame the marketing department cannot be bothered to add more exposure to the setups we offer.

  7. #7
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    Amazing work, honestly.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  8. #8
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    Amazing Work EVOLVE. Those headers are a work of art.
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Dyno graph showing gain from tubular headers fully adapted and on a very low mileage engine:
    Is this with a tune?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  10. #10
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    Promoted to front page because this is awesome.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    @evolve Sal why don't you just take all of my money right now?!! Haha.. Click here to enlarge

    I'm at a crossroads with my M5 right now, and only time will tell if I keep the beast.. But if it does stick around, I don't see any way for me to stop myself from buying these tubular headers. I really want 500whp N/A (Dynojet) from my M Click here to enlarge

    Sal have you guys posted any 60-130 times with your car on these Headers??

    Thanks,
    TZ
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
    03' Viper Roadster- FBO
    10' X5M
    09' Cayenne GTS
    11' Jaguar XFR
    08' CLS63 AMG
    08' EVO X GSR- FBO
    13' F10 550i M Sport

    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
    11' M3 Comp DCT
    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
    12' BOSS 302
    11' E92 335i
    09' C63 AMG -
    01' C5 Z06- White, FBO+Cam
    11' E92 335is- Sapp Blk
    08' E82 135i- Sapphire Blk
    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
    08' E90 335i 6-Speed- Blk
    08' C63 AMG- Blk
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Blk Raven
    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    I really want 500whp N/A (Dynojet) from my M
    500 wheel naturally aspirated on a dynojet is just... well, it's tits!

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    500 wheel naturally aspirated on a dynojet is just... well, it's tits!
    For real.. I'm so damn tempted Click here to enlarge

    I was completely sold on these after I saw Imran's trap speed at that VMAX event.
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
    03' Viper Roadster- FBO
    10' X5M
    09' Cayenne GTS
    11' Jaguar XFR
    08' CLS63 AMG
    08' EVO X GSR- FBO
    13' F10 550i M Sport

    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
    11' M3 Comp DCT
    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
    12' BOSS 302
    11' E92 335i
    09' C63 AMG -
    01' C5 Z06- White, FBO+Cam
    11' E92 335is- Sapp Blk
    08' E82 135i- Sapphire Blk
    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
    08' E90 335i 6-Speed- Blk
    08' C63 AMG- Blk
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Blk Raven
    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is this with a tune?
    Dyno's above are on stock car with no ECU tuning.

  15. #15
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    For real.. I'm so damn tempted Click here to enlarge

    I was completely sold on these after I saw Imran's trap speed at that VMAX event.
    Sorry for leading you into temptation Click here to enlarge

  16. #16
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    Supersprint S85 V10 Headers!!! Worth every penny as I have stated since they were developed
    and came to market. Just look at the snakes, oooooooh!

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