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View Poll Results: How do you feel about BMW M going to forced induction motors?

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  • Greatest thing ever, EVER.

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  • They said they would never do it, I've lost faith in them and all of mankind.

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Thread: BMW M ditching NA motors

              
  1. #1
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    BMW M ditching NA motors

    How do you feel?

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    I personally think they should stay NA, but I'll wait and see.

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    NA would be nice, but with all the emissions regulations and EPA stuff....F/I is the way to go until new technology comes out.

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    $#@!ing hippies. they stink and ruin the fun for everyone.

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    As much as I love FI, I think they should stay NA on M models and do the FI thing on non M's.

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    ive always been a N/A guy myself...and always loved their M engines...i wish they stayed NA but there are so many benefits of F/I that i understand the move. but audi is gona be mainly F/I and so is Mercedes now..so if bmw stayed N/A it would be even more special..oh well
    Current:
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    (KW ClubSport 3 way / Rs3)
    WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
    (above plus Apr Wing)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammyrusso Click here to enlarge
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    ive always been a N/A guy myself...and always loved their M engines...i wish they stayed NA but there are so many benefits of F/I that i understand the move. but audi is gona be mainly F/I and so is Mercedes now..so if bmw stayed N/A it would be even more special..oh well
    I've always been a fan of NA as well... but also because when you take a great NA motor and add boost, you get the best of both worlds. Like with a supercharged M3 Click here to enlarge

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    To be quite honest, I have no problem w/ BMW going F/I. I like the responsiveness of the N/A motors, but I wouldn't be opposed to buying a turbocharge/supercharged ///M car. I have never been disappointed by BMW, so the inclusion of F/I motors hasn't changed my love for the Bavarian automaker.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3Inline6 Click here to enlarge
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    To be quite honest, I have no problem w/ BMW going F/I. I like the responsiveness of the N/A motors, but I wouldn't be opposed to buying a turbocharge/supercharged ///M car. I have never been disappointed by BMW, so the inclusion of F/I motors hasn't changed my love for the Bavarian automaker.
    I'm sure they will do a great job and I am not opposed to it either. However, they did say they would never do it... and they said the same thing about an M SUV. Essentially, they went back on their word and acted like they never said it.

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    I think them going FI is a great idea!
    Click here to enlarge

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    FI is a good idea in my opinion. Normally FI motors are built a bit stronger to hold up to the high cylinder temps and have a lot of play when it comes to tuning. Just look at the 2jz, vg30dett, 4g63, rb26, all very good motors for getting high horsepower with bolt-ons and will still get decent milage when not under boost. Personally, I think if BMW took the N55 and made it stronger with a 8,000rpm high-flowing head (think s2000) and a newer technology twin-scroll turbo (such as Garrett's GTX line) it would be their best motor yet. It would breath well at all rpms because of Valvetronic, but especially where it matters most, high-rpm. High-end torque is what makes that 8,000rpm limit worth while, and a medium sized twin-scroll turbo would be responsive and LOVE that 8,000rpm, 3.0 liter airflow. Who gives a $#@! if the M1 isn't fully spooled at 1,200rpm? The only time you would use that at the track or drag-strip is never!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
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    FI is a good idea in my opinion. Normally FI motors are built a bit stronger to hold up to the high cylinder temps and have a lot of play when it comes to tuning. Just look at the 2jz, vg30dett, 4g63, rb26, all very good motors for getting high horsepower with bolt-ons and will still get decent milage when not under boost. Personally, I think if BMW took the N55 and made it stronger with a 8,000rpm high-flowing head (think s2000) and a newer technology twin-scroll turbo (such as Garrett's GTX line) it would be their best motor yet. It would breath well at all rpms because of Valvetronic, but especially where it matters most, high-rpm. High-end torque is what makes that 8,000rpm limit worth while, and a medium sized twin-scroll turbo would be responsive and LOVE that 8,000rpm, 3.0 liter airflow. Who gives a $#@! if the M1 isn't fully spooled at 1,200rpm? The only time you would use that at the track or drag-strip is never!
    So you mean if BMW took the N54 and tried to make it an S54 Click here to enlarge

    You take an NA M motor, add boost, and you get what you are saying.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So you mean if BMW took the N54 and tried to make it an S54 Click here to enlarge

    You take an NA M motor, add boost, and you get what you are saying.
    Kind of, except in cases like the LS7 where you can't do too much as it is already being pushed pretty far. Basically I am saying to take new tech from the N55 and the good design elements from the N54 and S54 and combine them to make a new motor which should power the M1. Make it solid so the tuners love it (2JZ style) and so it goes down in history as one of the greatest motors of all time. I'm sure there are engineers with the same idea as me, lets just hope they make it happen!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
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    Kind of, except in cases like the LS7 where you can't do too much as it is already being pushed pretty far. Basically I am saying to take new tech from the N55 and the good design elements from the N54 and S54 and combine them to make a new motor which should power the M1. Make it solid so the tuners love it (2JZ style) and so it goes down in history as one of the greatest motors of all time. I'm sure there are engineers with the same idea as me, lets just hope they make it happen!
    How is the LS7 already pushed pretty far? There are awesome forced induction LS7's out there.

    You don't need to do what you are saying as you will not end up with a super motor as you are thinking. Direct injection IMO would hold back the high revs as well as it not having the iron block. The N54 simply is what it is. The S54 will always be superior for power potential.

    The next gen M3 will definitely have the aspects you are saying. The M1 can't, it will step on too many toes.

    Just because something is an inline 6 and turbo does not make it a 2JZ nor should someone try to emulate it. It was a one of a kind motor at the right time. It gained its reputation in tuning circles.

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    You can build a strong aluminum block that supports high-revs, and LS7s on stock internals can take what, 7-10 psi with 93 octane? It is relatively high compression and has very thin cylinder walls. Not saying that is a bad combo, it will make tons of power, but you better have a really solid tune because I can tell you that block was not built to withstand any pre-detonation from FI. Anyways, we are comparing apples to oranges here. With a 7.0L vs 3.0L, the 3.0L should allow for a stronger block if it is anywhere near the physical dimensions of the 7.0L. Basically its just a matter of would you rather have a ton of displacement and barely multiply it or have less displacement and multiply it much farther. My decision that the I6 would be a good motor over another V8 is the fact that the I6 would not stress its internals as much in a high rev situation because of its inherent balance and the smaller piston size allows for a faster transition from off to on throttle. Of course the actual peak torque of the 3.0L I6 may come on a bit laggier because of it being turbocharged, but the actual response to throttle should be sharper than the 7.0L V8. I also prefer the sound of a high rev I6 or V12 over any V8, although flat-plane crank V8s do sound amazing, this is just opinion though and not important to the discussion. Also, I think the 2JZ is defiantly something that should be emulated, its strength, layout and ease of access to components are all things that made it such a great motor for tuners, and is why the VG30DETT is much lesser known even though it too can make 700+whp on stock internals and still be a reliable daily driver.

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    Due to its bore, but when sleeved, watch out. On stock internals it puts up decent numbers, but needs to be built to really strut, like most most motors.

    It really depends on the cylinder spacing and BMW gives you very little space to make the I-6 compact.

    I don't see what you are saying about the I6 having better throttle response boosted.

    We won't see over engineered motors like the 2JZ again, at least I do not think so.

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    Exactly, the LS7 must be built, glad we are on the same page. As far as throttle response, If I free-rev my vg30dett it will accelerate to top rpm faster than my father's ls6 due to my 3.0L engine having less mass to accelerate and less friction because of its configuration.Then again my 300zx is mechanical throttle and his is electronic. This is just me being picky, but normally the smaller engine will respond more sharply to throttle changes (check out a newer EFI sport bike engine), but since the turbo lag is present you will have sharp response but have to wait for the rest of the torque to hit. With the big engine the throttle response will not be as sharp but obviously the full amount of torque will be available much sooner. To each their own, I prefer the turbo lag feeling, some prefer the instant torque (it is especially good for killing tires). I am hoping BMW will build an awesome, high-revving, over-engineered, easy to modify engine for the M1!

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    I'm not an M owner, but I'd like to see them build lighter cars - regardless of whether they are equipped with FI or NA motors. I understand that we are talking about an M3 and not a Lotus and there are luxury features we want built in that will add weight. But I'd rather see less/ same hp motor with a drastically lighter car, not more hp motor but drastically heavier car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dan in PA Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not an M owner, but I'd like to see them build lighter cars - regardless of whether they are equipped with FI or NA motors. I understand that we are talking about an M3 and not a Lotus and there are luxury features we want built in that will add weight. But I'd rather see less/ same hp motor with a drastically lighter car, not more hp motor but drastically heavier car.
    The M3 and 3 series are the lightest cars in their class....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    The M3 and 3 series are the lightest cars in their class....

    Oh, really? I did not know that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
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    As much as I love FI, I think they should stay NA on M models and do the FI thing on non M's.
    +1.

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    Makes me glad I pulled the trigger on my M this past summer. First and last of the NA V-8 M3 generation.Click here to enlarge
    2009 M3 coupe,interlagos blue,6mt,loaded,19" hre comp 97's,powerchip,h&r springs,hamann front splitter,eisenmann race exhaust
    Click here to enlargeDelivered 7/10/09

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    Personally, I like the feel of the FI motor better than NA. Coming from a 2007 335i to my current 2008 M3 was a totally different experience. I do like the sound of the NA V8 better. I will be modding my 2011 E92 M3 due here in May, so maybe some tweaks will make the difference.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMW3R Click here to enlarge
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    Personally, I like the feel of the FI motor better than NA. Coming from a 2007 335i to my current 2008 M3 was a totally different experience. I do like the sound of the NA V8 better. I will be modding my 2011 E92 M3 due here in May, so maybe some tweaks will make the difference.
    What about the feel of a top of the class NA motor that later gets FI? Click here to enlarge

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    The official reasoning:

    Albert Biermann, head of development at M Division, said that the decision to replace the naturally aspirated engine with a turbo powerplant was influenced by BMW’s aggressive plans to cut fuel consumption as part of the EfficientDynamics program.
    “We’ve been forced to switch to an engine offering greater low-end torque than the naturally aspirated engine to ensure it can cope with the longer axle ratio,” Biermann said. “It’s the only real way we can balance achieving the environmental improvements we want while retaining similar levels of performance to today’s car.”
    Blame the hippies...

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