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Thread: E85 50/50 DYNO

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    E85 50/50 DYNO

    So my car has 426whp/470wtq on 93 octane and I was talking to my good buddy Brendan from BrenTuning and we decided to toy around with the E85. My car was on empty, so at the Shell I put in 7 gallons of E85 and filled the rest with 93 V-Power.

    Our results...WTF! 450whp/510wtq!

    ***I know some people talk about the different dynos and I look at the gains. Try me if you want to...LOL.

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    Mod list:

    2008 BMW 135I Mods list:
    COBB custom BrenTuning tune: 427whp/470wtq
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    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

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    Awesome numbers! Dynapacks tend to read a touch higher than the standard dynojet but regardless that's some amazing stuff. No baseline I'm guessing?

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    I have tons of data from this car since 09'. I will post later. We are a Cobb PROTuner of many platforms.

    Stock was 280/280. FBO stock was 300/300. Similar to dynojet. It was also 100+ degrees yesterday so there is room for improvement. Cobb s2+ aggressive 4.02 made 360whp here. 1.0CF

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    no meth?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    no meth?
    Nope. I've been thinking about running meth, but now that I've found out that I can just use E85, there's no need.
    Click here to enlarge
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

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    How much boost: specifically midrange to redline?

    Still waiting to see a Protuner run significantly more boost to redline than OTS stage 2+ Agg.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by UsualSuspect Click here to enlarge
    Nope. I've been thinking about running meth, but now that I've found out that I can just use E85, there's no need.
    thats what i wanted to hear!

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    Nice numbers... wait, is that the new stock turbo record?
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    Did you check for fuel codes, running that 50/50 mix? Also, I wonder if you can dyno a 30/70 mix, as some are under the Impression that after a 30/70 mix, upping the E85 level, without a tune that is specifically for E85, yeilds no benefit.

    Thanks

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    Stock turbo, no NO2 record is 456WHP on a dynojet.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Great gains....I wish there was more e85 stations in the nj/NYC area, I would jump all over this.
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    ESS 6XX kit

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    Awesome! You and bren headed to bimmerfest? would love to see how we stack up Click here to enlarge

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    Hey guys,

    Just want to check in here and answer some questions that have been posted.

    Baselines for #s's:

    RWD 135i/335i make 280/280whp here. Some as low as 275. DCI / catless / fmic bolt on cars have seen 295-300whp for baselines.

    STG2+ Aggressive Cobb OTS cars make as low as 345 to as high as 365whp depending on FMIC or not.

    This 135i in particular has:

    Dirty DCI filters
    Cyba Scoops
    Forge DVs
    Custom FMIC and charge pipe
    Berk axle back
    2.5" Raceland DP's (lol)
    3" Single midpipe exhaust

    Tuning:

    We have a Scalar set for +/- trims of 5-7% on part to full throttle all the way through 145mph. A 1.25 SCALAR is a problem with this 50% mix and maxed out fuel trims about 5000rpms and we saw a major lean out to high 12 afr and power loss in high rpms. It took a few tries to dial this in. Anyone mixing E85 should live data feed STFT #1 at least while hard driving. For E85 we did not run any leaner then 12:1 at the tailpipe. It made good / repeatable power with it. Not sure we are comfortable running a mid 13 AFR on boost for a car driven as hard as UsualSuspects. We were able to get 19psi tapering to 14 up top. Any change in boost in the top end does NOT result in higher gains. Simply not worth it. One should chase other aspects of the tune in that region OTHER then ignition advance to get more top end (hint). On stock turbos chasing that bit of extra boost up there was pointless. Timing and VANOS changes were based off our pump gas map with changes for the increased octane and scaling. Otherwise very similar if not identical boost curve. We did not find the ignition limit or even get any timing corrections on these passes. Glory pass is still left in it. But we were beat and called it a day.

    Odd notes: Any change greater then 15% to the WGDC table resulted in a 1-3psi limp mode. This is a bug we've found in the IJC0S software and have submitted it to Cobb. Any Change in load ceiling above 200 seems futile too. Also another note anyone that has trouble dialing in boost on Cobb Software simply has not spent enough time. It's pretty simple. Needing a piggyback to dial in a stage 2 car or meth/race gas car or anything really under 20 psi is straight forward with ATP. The Cobb software is VERY powerful - yet most people don't even realize how to use it correctly. We have been tuning multiple platforms for many years for Cobb and this car is one of the easier ones we've ever done. Pick your "t00ner" wisely.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Stock turbo, no NO2 record is 456WHP on a dynojet.
    Considering no meth, and 93 in the other half of the tank and not even stressing the car near the "limit" i'm sure we will re-visit this record soon.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Awesome! You and bren headed to bimmerfest? would love to see how we stack up Click here to enlarge
    He will be there, know of any E85 stations near by? I'll be working on the dyno.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    We were able to get 19psi tapering to 14 up top. Any change in boost in the top end does NOT result in higher gains. Simply not worth it.
    Im having a hard time believing this. Do you have any dynos/logs showing that you ran more than 14-15psi above 6k RPM's? Not trying to call you out, i just understand how the piggybacks can get such great numbers running more boost, when you're saying that it doesnt create more power. Even if the twins are outside of their efficiency range, we should still get 10 whp or so per psi.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Im having a hard time believing this. Do you have any dynos/logs showing that you ran more than 14-15psi above 6k RPM's? Not trying to call you out, i just understand how the piggybacks can get such great numbers running more boost, when you're saying that it doesnt create more power. Even if the twins are outside of their efficiency range, we should still get 10 whp or so per psi.
    Nothing outside of the efficiency range is going to make 10whp per psi in high rpms especially on a small turbo car. Not a single car I've seen does this i.e. GTR's and EVO's/STi's. There is a sweet spot for these cars and Cobb is pretty close. I'm much rather dial in ignition then flame throw these cars past 6000rpms. I come from a different school of thought and up until recently people have just turned up boost via a piggyback to make more boost with octane/meth/E85. Try doing it on pump gas and finding the octane limit balance, not throw a bunch of knock resistant octane at a car thats flamethrowing the turbos. Cobb blew this wide open. Make your own ignition curve/VANOS curve on the dyno. Not go up and down on the stock timing curve and boost curve. There are different ways to make power.

    Try it yourself on a load based dyno: I went for 13-15.5 @ 6k, with no gains. Little bit of gain down low in the midrange from 18-19.5. Nothing worth writing home about. Want top end? Seen a stock turbo car @ Innovative make peak power at 6500rpms, tuner ran 17 degrees @ 7000 and boost was similar to OTS aggressive 13-14 psi past 6K on that car. Not my cup of tea but food for thought of "top end."
    Last edited by BrenM3; 08-24-2012 at 01:58 PM.

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    Someone really needs to share this on e90.
    What about Cobb not fueling e85? What about tuners using Cobb not having control over boost?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Someone really needs to share this on e90.
    What about Cobb not fueling e85? What about tuners using Cobb not having control over boost?
    Its more the rb turbo guys it seems.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Its more the rb turbo guys it seems.
    I'll find out soon enough when someone brings me one. But I think with enough time and patience one could dial in all the settings correctly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    I have tons of data from this car since 09'. I will post later. We are a Cobb PROTuner of many platforms.

    Stock was 280/280. FBO stock was 300/300. Similar to dynojet. It was also 100+ degrees yesterday so there is room for improvement. Cobb s2+ aggressive 4.02 made 360whp here. 1.0CF
    you stating ambient was 100degF and you used CF of 1.0?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Nothing outside of the efficiency range is going to make 10whp per psi in high rpms especially on a small turbo car. Not a single car I've seen does this i.e. GTR's and EVO's/STi's. There is a sweet spot for these cars and Cobb is pretty close. I'm much rather dial in ignition then flame throw these cars past 6000rpms. I come from a different school of thought and up until recently people have just turned up boost via a piggyback to make more boost with octane/meth/E85. Try doing it on pump gas and finding the octane limit balance, not throw a bunch of knock resistant octane at a car thats flamethrowing the turbos. Cobb blew this wide open. Make your own ignition curve/VANOS curve on the dyno. Not go up and down on the stock timing curve and boost curve. There are different ways to make power.

    Try it yourself on a load based dyno: I went for 13-15.5 @ 6k, with no gains. Little bit of gain down low in the midrange from 18-19.5. Nothing worth writing home about. Want top end? Seen a stock turbo car @ Innovative make peak power at 6500rpms, tuner ran 17 degrees @ 7000 and boost was similar to OTS aggressive 13-14 psi past 6K on that car. Not my cup of tea but food for thought of "top end."
    I want to believe you, i really do. Im just playing devils advocate here. I would just love to see some proof that that we as the Cobb camp are capable of running higher boost to redline, we just choose not to because it doesnt make the most power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    you stating ambient was 100degF and you used CF of 1.0?
    On yesterdays pulls, the shop was ~100F in the dyno cell and CF is always 1.0CF

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I want to believe you, i really do. Im just playing devils advocate here. I would just love to see some proof that that we as the Cobb camp are capable of running higher boost to redline, we just choose not to because it doesnt make the most power.
    Next time I have a car here to do this, i'll run a test on this and report back.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I want to believe you, i really do. Im just playing devils advocate here. I would just love to see some proof that that we as the Cobb camp are capable of running higher boost to redline, we just choose not to because it doesnt make the most power.
    Would u like to see 21.5psi to 17.5-18 at redline, 19psi at 6500 from an RB car running meth Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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