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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vwgrk1 Click here to enlarge
    I have an IJCOS and I have the post-shift timing drop.
    finally, a confirmation that its got nothing to do with the old version of this ROM..no point reverting back to that ROM version, as expected
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 09-14-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    I am utterly confused myself now. There are zero corrections in any of the gears yet my timing is around 6 degrees ramping to 10 (should be 12 ramping to 14). The AP while I was live logging timing said I was 0 degrees of timing but the log says I'm at 6 degrees post-shift.Maybe reload the map or the car was adapting due to excessive corrections? Who knows.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vwgrk1 Click here to enlarge
    I have an IJCOS and I have the post-shift timing drop.
    Can you post a log with the timing corrections?

  3. #103
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    @Cobb - Any update on this??

  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    @Cobb - Any update on this??
    @COBB Tuning @Josh@Cobb

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  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    finally, a confirmation that its got nothing to do with the old version of this ROM..no point reverting back to that ROM version, as expected
    That guy has a 6MT btw.

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're working on it guys. We've gotten lots of logs and will let you guys know as soon as we're confident on the cause and solution. Sorry I don't have more to report yet...
    Josh Dankel
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  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    @Josh@Cobb @Jason@Cobb @Rob@Cobb Novel concept, the common denominator is the fact this activity only happens on IJE0S. How difficult would it be cross checking the logic and tables of this ROM with older MSD81 ROM revs e.g. IJC0S. When I first got the car it was an older ROM revision and had no timing issues. Once I went in for the HPFP recall the timing has gone to crap since. The band-aid fix would be to find a way to write the entire engine-related module using an older ROM rev. Thoughts?
    Dang it, I missed this too... sorry. At this point, we don't think its isolated to any particular rom. We are looking into all possibilities however.
    Josh Dankel
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  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    Dang it, I missed this too... sorry. At this point, we don't think its isolated to any particular rom. We are looking into all possibilities however.
    It does appear the common denominator is MSD81 though. I never see MSD80 owners say a word (e.g. I8A0S)

  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Can you post a log with the timing corrections?
    Sadly, the logs are too big to post here. PM me your email address and I'll send. Alternatively, you can find a post I started in the other forum wherein it is attached. Yes, a MT. Also, there seem to be more and more people experiencing this now that it is in style to log the 3-4 shift.

    Honestly, I have no idea where some of the timing numbers come from during the shift. They do not seem to tie to any table. I suspect that huge and sudden drops and jumps in timing are at fault. I hope I am not muddying up the water, but maybe there is another table at fault, here? Here's my thought process:

    1. Due to IAT related corrections (130 temps), my actual timing was 5-6 degrees lower than the 14 I was asking for on the 3rd gear portion of this particular run at WOT. OK, I get that. As expected.
    2. During the shift to 4th, and while off throttle, timing dropped to 8.25 and then 3.75 and then to -8.62 at load 126 and -4.12 at load 36 in two consecutive cells (the negatives were at about 6500 rpm). In absolute terms, I'm not sure if this was a rather smooth drop in timing or not.
    3. Why do I bring the negative timing up? Because it does not seem to correspond to any of the tables in the map. It is important to note that the negative timing that I can't tie to anything happened while actual load was above requested.
    4. Once load fell to match requested (and still off throttle), timing jumped to about 7.5 degrees at a 10-15 load at 6000 or so rpm. My requested timing in my map tables is in the 20's. So, again, I have no idea where this timing comes from (and high IATs don't explain the difference...it's not possible that they would cause a 15 or so degree timing drop).
    5. As I get back on throttle in 4th and while engaging clutch, timing jumps to 21 degrees at a 15 load at about 5500 rpm and 19 degrees in the next cell at 70 load at 4900 rpm (yes, I was WOT slightly before clutch was fully engaged).
    6. This timing seems to approximate multiple tables in my maps. Hell if I know which table this is based off of or if the 5-6 degree timing adjustment is being applied.
    7. Multiple cylinder knock events begin at that 19 degree line.

    Different car/different tuning, but what I remember from running a Turbo XS piggyback on my WRX is that knock can sometimes be the result of what happened 2 or 3 data rows ago, not the row in which knock correction happens/is detected. Shift knock sometimes happened in that car due to wild timing changes during shifts. I have wild timing changes here. Is this the culprit? How do I fix it, if it is? If negative timing or the unexplained multiple rows of 7.5 degrees off throttle is the culprit, then it does not look like I can do anything about it; those tables are out of my control. If shift knock is the result of the transition from 7.5 degrees of unexplained timing to the 21-19 degrees as I get back on throttle (I think the 21 and 19 ties to my tables, but I am not sure which one or even if it is), then maybe I can avoid this by reducing timing significantly in those load columns ranging from 15 to 70?

    Again, I have no idea which table to adjust or if reducing timing there will make the car an absolute dog in part throttle and spool up situations. What might be the trade off and is it worth it? Is there maybe a "smarter" ECU logic fix that smooths out applied timing as one goes back on throttle (to avoid 13.5 degree jumps, like I have)?

  10. #110
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vwgrk1 Click here to enlarge
    Sadly, the logs are too big to post here.
    How large and are they zipped?

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  11. #111
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    26.2 kb and I am not sure how I'd zip something.

  12. #112
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    Did some tuning on my friends 08 535i, he was having some post shift timing corrections. I8AOS rom. Reducing the timing for the load cells post shift cut the timing corrections in half. Knock voltage never indicated the post shift timing corrections are a reaction to KR.

  13. #113
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    doesnt OEM tuning also lower timings at around 5000-5500 rpm and raise it again afterwards?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Did some tuning on my friends 08 535i, he was having some post shift timing corrections. I8AOS rom. Reducing the timing for the load cells post shift cut the timing corrections in half. Knock voltage never indicated the post shift timing corrections are a reaction to KR.
    AT Or MT?

  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vwgrk1 Click here to enlarge
    26.2 kb and I am not sure how I'd zip something.
    Put all the datalogs you want to post into a folder. Then Right Click on the folder and select "Send To" then "Compressed Zip Folder" It will ask you where you want to save this zip file.

  16. #116
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    AT Or MT?
    AT

  17. #117
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    What version map were you running and did you have a E85 blend?
    I'm curious how much timing you took out?
    Also, how did the timing values in your map compare to the timing values in Stage0 map for that car?

  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    What version map were you running and did you have a E85 blend?
    I'm curious how much timing you took out?
    Also, how did the timing values in your map compare to the timing values in Stage0 map for that car?
    Car was an '08 535i, auto. I8AOS MSD80. Only mod is DCI, tuning was on ~E50 using the Cobb E30 "Race" as the base map. Load targets were reduced to around 17psi tapering to 13psi above 6k as we agreed to keep the boost very conservative. The car would rip single gear pulls with absolutely zero timing corrections, but post shift 2-3 cylinders would correct heavily - sometimes up to 10 degrees and slowly ramp up back to target at around 12*. I logged the knock voltage and all 6 cylinders were dead quiet. I pulled 1.5 degrees of timing at the post shift cells and it reduced the corrections to the typical 3.38* on 2 cylinders and quickly ramped back to target. I have his logs on my laptop, ill try to post some up.

  19. #119
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Car was an '08 535i, auto. I8AOS MSD80. Only mod is DCI, tuning was on ~E50 using the Cobb E30 "Race" as the base map. Load targets were reduced to around 17psi tapering to 13psi above 6k as we agreed to keep the boost very conservative. The car would rip single gear pulls with absolutely zero timing corrections, but post shift 2-3 cylinders would correct heavily - sometimes up to 10 degrees and slowly ramp up back to target at around 12*. I logged the knock voltage and all 6 cylinders were dead quiet. I pulled 1.5 degrees of timing at the post shift cells and it reduced the corrections to the typical 3.38* on 2 cylinders and quickly ramped back to target. I have his logs on my laptop, ill try to post some up.
    Shift at 6200. The corrections are lower on redline shifts as opposed to short shifts.

  20. #120
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Shift at 6200. The corrections are lower on redline shifts as opposed to short shifts.
    Wait..... Do you mean to shift at 6200 becuase the corrections are lower compared to shifting at redline?

  21. #121
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Shift at 6200. The corrections are lower on redline shifts as opposed to short shifts.
    I believe he was trying to. 535 has a different auto trans, doesnt respond to shift inputs nearly as fast as the 335 auto.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    Wait..... Do you mean to shift at 6200 becuase the corrections are lower compared to shifting at redline?
    No sorry, just the opposite. Meant you will see massive corrections when it's shifted early.

  23. #123
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I believe he was trying to. 535 has a different auto trans, doesnt respond to shift inputs nearly as fast as the 335 auto.
    The 535 doesn't have a ZF 6HP19? Interesting.

  24. #124
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    The short shifting isn't as big an issue with rb turbos as peak hp is made much later than stock turbos. On stock turbos though late shifting 3rd gear will cost you some time.

  25. #125
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vwgrk1 Click here to enlarge
    26.2 kb and I am not sure how I'd zip something.
    Should be well within the size limit. The problem you are having is likely the file extension and not the size.

    If you are using windows you just right click then select zip.

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