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  1. #1
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    Doesn't running E85 dry rot your fuel lines?

    As the title says, I've always wondered how you guys run E85 with no issues. I was under the assumption that E85 dry rots all your lines, if your car is not prepped for it with the correct lines. Do we not have to worry about this on the N54?
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    Our cars werent designed to run 100% ethanol, but designed to run some degree of it. If you look at other platforms that are modern, they usually just need upgrades to support the volume of fuel needed because of E85, not because seals and or fuel components fail. All modern cars have ethanol capable fuel tanks, fuel lines etc.

    Unless your pimpin a '64 impala, your good mang.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Our cars werent designed to run 100% ethanol, but designed to run some degree of it. If you look at other platforms that are modern, they usually just need upgrades to support the volume of fuel needed because of E85, not because seals and or fuel components fail. All modern cars have ethanol capable fuel tanks, fuel lines etc.

    Unless your pimpin a '64 impala, your good mang.
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    Most pump gas in Brazil is actually between 20-25% ethanol for the past 5 years and BMW sells quite a bit of cars there Click here to enlarge I don't think the system is built for 100% E85 as @dubversion gave us info from his BMW N54 fuel system engineer contact but at E30 levels I really think/hope we shouldn't have any issues using it.
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    Honestly, it's to early to tell, at this point it's trial and error. If I could make a guess I would think anything over 30% is out of the amount of ethanol this system was designed to handle. The question is, what will fail and how long will it take? Nothing could fail, but time will tell.
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    The low pressure fuel sensor might be susceptible to higher levels of ethanol. Mine started showing max pressure today, DME is requesting 72 psi, sensor is indicating 145.01 as actual. From what I've seen, people experimenting with higher levels of ethanol have been having this sensor fail left and right...

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    Ethanol is a bit corrosive....the fuel systems in X3s were really prone to failing because of high levels of Ethanol....it would also eat the fuel level sensor material off the side of the basket, so your car would basically run out of gas, but still say 100 miles remaining.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    The low pressure fuel sensor might be susceptible to higher levels of ethanol. Mine started showing max pressure today, DME is requesting 72 psi, sensor is indicating 145.01 as actual. From what I've seen, people experimenting with higher levels of ethanol have been having this sensor fail left and right...
    @Lulz, when you say higher levels of Ethanol - are you saying higher then 50/50..?

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    @boosted-M, its difficult to say. I havent run more than ~E48-E50 and mine just crapped out. Its more of an observation on my end, ethanol is all the craze right now and people are having issues with this sensor frequently. But at the same time, this sensor hasnt exactly been reliable in the past either. I just ordered mine, $63 from tischer and the car still runs "ok" with it indicating the incorrect values. To me its not that big of a concern but definately something to watch our for...

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    That low fuel pressure sensor though craps out so often on the N54 anyways, even on pump gas...it doesn't need to be indicative of ethanol induced failures
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, it's to early to tell, at this point it's trial and error. If I could make a guess I would think anything over 30% is out of the amount of ethanol this system was designed to handle. The question is, what will fail and how long will it take? Nothing could fail, but time will tell.
    I would agree with this I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. We'll see what happens.

    That said, running a tank of E85 every once in a while should post no problems. If you want to run it 100% of the time... well, I would look into it much further. Fuel lines are one area that is usually upgraded for E85 I believe. The tanks themselves should be fine.

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    I'm running 50/50 E85/93 with 1.20 scalar and fuel trims are in the low 20's....When I'm filling up at the E85 pump I do not want to let go of the handle Click here to enlarge I hate putting the 93 in. Ran 100% E85 in all my other cars and loved it!! I've been thinking of trying 100% E85 in my car and use meth if I exceed my fuel trims (not the safest as I would be using the meth system to a certain point as fuel delivery) but with the HSF4 if there are ANY problems it will cut my boost down to 8psi or lower...

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    I've run 50/50 and 100% E85. Other than the hassle of two swipes and two pumps 50/50 is fine. 100% was only slightly more detonation resistant IMO.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    I've run 50/50 and 100% E85. Other than the hassle of two swipes and two pumps 50/50 is fine. 100% was only slightly more detonation resistant IMO.

    Also, how much timing were you running that you knew you were past MBT? Did you do this tuning on a dyno?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    I'm running 50/50 E85/93 with 1.20 scalar and fuel trims are in the low 20's....When I'm filling up at the E85 pump I do not want to let go of the handle Click here to enlarge I hate putting the 93 in. Ran 100% E85 in all my other cars and loved it!! I've been thinking of trying 100% E85 in my car and use meth if I exceed my fuel trims (not the safest as I would be using the meth system to a certain point as fuel delivery) but with the HSF4 if there are ANY problems it will cut my boost down to 8psi or lower...
    just how many cars do you have? a s/c m3, a tuned n54, what else is in that garage?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    Also, how much timing were you running that you knew you were past MBT? Did you do this tuning on a dyno?
    I don't think I was past MBT, but I think I was getting close running about 10 minimum climbing to 15 at redline. I just noticed that when I went to 100% E85 it didn't feel any faster even when I added more timing than was possible without knock at 50/50. It also seems a little smoother and "happier"(?) with the mix. This was all based on feel and logs, I did not test each version on a dyno. But based on how it felt and how the logs looked, I would have to see hard evidence of a significant improvement on 100% to run that way all the time. As I was adding timing and more E85 approaching from less than 50/50 the improvements were obvious.

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    Lul. I find it hard to believe your car is running fine with a faulty sensor. I guess it's didn't totally take a crap on you like mine did. Replace that sucker ASAP and you will be surprised how well the car will run afterwards

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Lul. I find it hard to believe your car is running fine with a faulty sensor. I guess it's didn't totally take a crap on you like mine did. Replace that sucker ASAP and you will be surprised how well the car will run afterwards
    I can definately feel a loss of power, but the car still pulls pretty good. Can't wait to get it back in shape. Suprisingly the logs still look great, other than my AFRs being very rocky but close to target.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Lul. I find it hard to believe your car is running fine with a faulty sensor. I guess it's didn't totally take a crap on you like mine did. Replace that sucker ASAP and you will be surprised how well the car will run afterwards
    I had the 29F3 code for quite a while before I noticed any symptoms. I believe you did as well, no? Even then the symptoms slowly grew for me... much further down the road I had an infrequent fuel cut at WOT with a slight RPM jump on cold starts and eventually evolved to a 60s muscle car type cold start and fuel cuts much more frequently at WOT.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ssharma Click here to enlarge
    I had the 29F3 code for quite a while before I noticed any symptoms. I believe you did as well, no? Even then the symptoms slowly grew for me... much further down the road I had an infrequent fuel cut at WOT with a slight RPM jump on cold starts and eventually evolved to a 60s muscle car type cold start and fuel cuts much more frequently at WOT.
    Did that 29F3 code throw a check engine light for you? I have had that code stored for more than a year on my car, but I haven't had idle issues, fuel cut etc. It doesn't throw a CEL for me, but it is displayed on my P3 gauge.

    The car runs really good too...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    Did that 29F3 code throw a check engine light for you? I have had that code stored for more than a year on my car, but I haven't had idle issues, fuel cut etc. It doesn't throw a CEL for me, but it is displayed on my P3 gauge.

    The car runs really good too...
    Never threw a an SES for me until I had some cold start misfires, but never for the 29F3. 29F3 was persistent and would not clear... Should also mention there were power surges at low throttle/rpm.

    My car ran phenomenal for quite a while with the 29F3 code, which was why I never bothered to change it. I would suggest doing it sooner than later because when the symptoms do start to get bad the car is no fun to drive.. cold starts while aggressive sounding are simply just not right, daily commutes are awful with sudden surges and cuts at low rpms and not knowing if you are going to get an injector cut off everytime you go wot blows (pretty much a 50/50 shotwhen it gets bad).. (fuel cut does sound pretty awesome though)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    Did that 29F3 code throw a check engine light for you? I have had that code stored for more than a year on my car, but I haven't had idle issues, fuel cut etc. It doesn't throw a CEL for me, but it is displayed on my P3 gauge.

    The car runs really good too...
    I have the 29F3 code showing on mine for about a week now, but it doesnt illuminate the CEL and it wont clear, just keeps coming back. Log LPFP requested and actual to see if you are having issues. My requested is 72 psi, my actual shows 145.01 psi so its pretty obvious when it $#@!s the bed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I have the 29F3 code showing on mine for about a week now, but it doesnt illuminate the CEL and it wont clear, just keeps coming back. Log LPFP requested and actual to see if you are having issues. My requested is 72 psi, my actual shows 145.01 psi so its pretty obvious when it $#@!s the bed.
    I have had the 29F3 code for a couple of weeks now but it isn't affecting anything as far as I can tell at this point. My logs also show actual of 145.01 at all times regardless of RPM's. I have a new sensor on order and will post an update once it is replaced.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    I have had the 29F3 code for a couple of weeks now but it isn't affecting anything as far as I can tell at this point. My logs also show actual of 145.01 at all times regardless of RPM's. I have a new sensor on order and will post an update once it is replaced.
    My car felt noticeably slower when this occured, had the Low pressure sensor replaced and everything is back to normal.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    My car felt noticeably slower when this occured, had the Low pressure sensor replaced and everything is back to normal.
    Interesting. I also have had this code for well over a year by now. The car has always ran strong in my opinion as evidenced by my drag results, but I finally bit the bullet and ordered a new sensor this week as well. Might take it back once more to see if there are any changes made other than what's felt on the butt dyno.

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