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  1. #1
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    451 rwhp on stock turbos and pump gas with JB3 2.0

    This is pretty impressive. Car belongs to j x k.

    Details:

    Car:
    135i 6mt
    JB3 2.0 18ohm Map 1
    AR downpipes
    Custom 3" Exhaust
    BMS Intake
    Active autowerke IC
    Stett charge pipe..
    Coolingmist meth kit M7 nozzle
    95/5 methanol mix
    93 pump
    77 degrees ambient, %%? Humidity (It was raining believe it or not)

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    i commented on this on e90, this is stupid. nearly 20 psi on pumpgas is just plain stupid, especially on stock turbos for goodness sake. sure maybe jxk was going for the record, but at what cost? if he just threw in racegas there, my argument would not be as powerful. 20psi on racegas is definitely doable, but on stock turbos? the compressor maps have been posted. the stock turbos are td03-10t. the peak efficiency is no where near that mark. i would much rather going more advanced in the timing and lowering boost rather than upping the boost way past the efficiency zone and then probably have to retard timing (or since he runs the jb3, have the dme retard timing)! gratz to jxk for his record, but i hope he doesnt drive on this map, his turbos will fail at this level, its only a matter of time.
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

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    I would spend some major time on that boost and ignition curve.

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    Very aggressive for sure. He's running a lot of boost and a lot of timing (more than a stock car @ 8psi) but that is what it takes to make this kind of power. It's not for the faint of heart. Click here to enlarge For street/strip use he would definitely need race gas and/or a lot more meth. On a lower load dynojet you can get away with a few things. But you'd be surprised how many cars run stock turbos @ 19-20psi given the risks and live to tell about it provided they manage the details properly.

    We put down similar numbers a year ago with a similar boost/timing curve, only we used some race gas on top of the meth. 20psi+15-16 degrees.

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    From the shapes of his torque curves curves, + his boost log, his "similar" curve certainly isn't as smooth as your chart. He's got an overshoot then drop out.

    But throw a little race gas at the problem, that will bandaid it Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    i commented on this on e90, this is stupid. nearly 20 psi on pumpgas is just plain stupid, especially on stock turbos for goodness sake. sure maybe jxk was going for the record, but at what cost? if he just threw in racegas there, my argument would not be as powerful. 20psi on racegas is definitely doable, but on stock turbos? the compressor maps have been posted. the stock turbos are td03-10t. the peak efficiency is no where near that mark. i would much rather going more advanced in the timing and lowering boost rather than upping the boost way past the efficiency zone and then probably have to retard timing (or since he runs the jb3, have the dme retard timing)! gratz to jxk for his record, but i hope he doesnt drive on this map, his turbos will fail at this level, its only a matter of time.
    Where did you read his timing figures? I would think he did run high advance #s.

    It is a norm that the max power figures are past the efficiency range of any turbochargers. What exactly you think is the problem? What do you think is failing in the turbos?

    I believe he is not driving WOT all the time, so the longevity can still be there if he deploys this much power only once in a while.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    i commented on this on e90, this is stupid. nearly 20 psi on pumpgas is just plain stupid, especially on stock turbos for goodness sake. sure maybe jxk was going for the record, but at what cost? if he just threw in racegas there, my argument would not be as powerful. 20psi on racegas is definitely doable, but on stock turbos? the compressor maps have been posted. the stock turbos are td03-10t. the peak efficiency is no where near that mark. i would much rather going more advanced in the timing and lowering boost rather than upping the boost way past the efficiency zone and then probably have to retard timing (or since he runs the jb3, have the dme retard timing)! gratz to jxk for his record, but i hope he doesnt drive on this map, his turbos will fail at this level, its only a matter of time.
    I think he was just going for peak dyno numbers... and he did it.

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    Giving both a cursory look the only difference I see is we have the PID gain set lower to avoid overshoot where OP set higher. IIRC we were sitting a touch over 20psi in our testing.

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    Terry, how did his numbers stack up to yours? Is this now the stock turbo pump gas dyno record?

    Edit: Just saw your graph, so this is the pump gas record now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    From the shapes of his torque curves curves, + his boost log, his "similar" curve certainly isn't as smooth as your chart. He's got an overshoot then drop out.

    But throw a little race gas at the problem, that will bandaid it Click here to enlarge
    I think what you call overshoot, is probably just a high TQ value he has tuned in his custom map.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Terry, how did his numbers stack up to yours? Is this now the stock turbo pump gas dyno record?
    Well normally we separate meth/race gas from pump gas. But it's a customer dyno record of some sorts I imagine. Maybe most dynojet WHP stock turbo from a customer car?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think he was just going for peak dyno numbers... and he did it.
    Tuning torque down at the low RPMs would reduce the IATs heating up and he might have a couple of more WHP up top if he would dial the TQ down a bit.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Tuning torque down at the low RPMs would reduce the IATs heating up and he might have a couple of more WHP up top if he would dial the TQ down a bit.
    I've been saying this from the get go.

  14. #14
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    With meth it's not a big issue. I tend to prefer to keep torque level but customers are free to set it up however they'd like.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Well normally we separate meth/race gas from pump gas. But it's a customer dyno record of some sorts I imagine. Maybe most dynojet WHP stock turbo from a customer car?
    Hey, pump gas is still pump gas. If some people don't want to recognize what meth can do for pump gas applications that is their problem. Probably most WHP from a stock turbo customer car on pump but I have to double check.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    I've been saying this from the get go.
    Yes, but it seems this dude is not a tuner and just a guy learning as he goes. So, I'm sure he will be glad to know he can clean it up a bit.

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    Awesome!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Awesome!!
    2nd that!

    I plan on that exact same setup except for the intercooler. (can't decide between AMS, HPF or CP-E)

    I like how the JB3 dips down to almost 14psi on that run to keep the torque curve relatively flat. (it is following the factory boost curve but amplified?)

    Thanks for the great product Terry!

  19. #19
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    yes, it can be tuned out, but its not the most comfortable on DD driving

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Where did you read his timing figures? I would think he did run high advance #s.

    It is a norm that the max power figures are past the efficiency range of any turbochargers. What exactly you think is the problem? What do you think is failing in the turbos?

    I believe he is not driving WOT all the time, so the longevity can still be there if he deploys this much power only once in a while.
    great question. from my experience, what fails in the turbo is either A: the o-ring in the housing itself, or B: the actual shaft gets distorted/unbalanced from spinning too fast (you guys should see how thin the stock shaft is). the o-ring has been an huge issue on stock n54 turbos. a lot of people got catchcans thinking they solved the issue but it didnt do squat, all the CC catches is in the valve-train, not the turbos. ever wonder why the intake tract and i/c is covered in oil sometimes? asr addresses this issue as i hope all other turbokits for the n54 out there do (and no this is unrelated to the wg issue).
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    what I don't get is why are turbos safe from failure with race gas and not without it? If you're runnin 19-20 psi on them what the hell does it matter what gas you're using?? They'll still work the same way to reach that 19-20psi whether race gas or not...

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    its the octane you need at that boost psi, running above 17psi without it is not for everyone Click here to enlarge But I think he just wanted to show what can be done. I for one, thank him, because now i see what the real limits of the factory turbo's and can compare my own Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its the octane you need at that boost psi, running above 17psi without it is not for everyone Click here to enlarge But I think he just wanted to show what can be done. I for one, thank him, because now i see what the real limits of the factory turbo's and can compare my own Click here to enlarge
    No, no, I understand that part....I was specifically asking a question around the comment on safety around stock turbos themselves...it seems running race gas is being explained as a way to safely run 19-20psi on stock turbos when we know this isn't true...its ok on the motor but definitely not ok on the stock turbos and they will fail if abused heavily at those boost levels, period, race gas or not...

    EDIT: Admittedly, I've run 19-20 on my stock snails at the 1/4 last few times I was there but I've got RB's on the way Click here to enlarge

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    I think they are suggesting race gas with less boost and a lot more timing. But what they didn't realize is timing was already cranked up @ 20psi to get these power levels.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    what I don't get is why are turbos safe from failure with race gas and not without it? If you're runnin 19-20 psi on them what the hell does it matter what gas you're using?? They'll still work the same way to reach that 19-20psi whether race gas or not...
    I think he was talking about the fuel to protect the motor and not the turbos. The turbos are out of their efficiency range ras gas or not.

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